At the moment I am thinking about getting a new phone in the foreseeable future. I was long time using android, but switched to iOS 5 years ago because of the longer update period. Now also some android devices offer a longer update support of about 5 years. Now I am thinking about switching back to android.
But i am wondering: is there any big difference from a privacy perspective between iOS and android? I know you can go for custom roms on android that are focused on privacy which i also used in the past, but i am not planning on doing this in the future. So it would come down to stock android vs stock iOS. Any advice there or is all lost anyway?
Probably depends largely on how you plan to use it. Android gives you the ability to download FOSS apps from F-Droid (or Obtainium, …). Being unable to do this because of iOS would be a huge minus for me in both usability and privacy/security. If you never plan to use that though, it becomes a lot closer.
If you want the best stock experience, I recommend getting a Google Pixel. It gets fast updates, has 5 years of support and is one of the most secure devices you can get hardware-wise. You also have the option of installing GrapheneOS on it (which is very quick and easy through the web installer), which is likely the best OS for privacy and security. It also gives you the option of using Google Services in a sandbox, which probably doesn’t even feel much different from using stock google android.
How does that even work if you don’t give the app storage permission? Or is the work profile completely different? I’ve got teams and company portal just on my normal bit of the phone.
If you are a normal user that just wants a bit privacy and no excessive amount of spyware, I guess iOS is the way. Though if you do care about privacy, you can get yourself a pixel phone and flash GrapheneOS, which is far superior to stock android or iOS. It’s FOSS, it has tools that will help with your privacy, etc. Plus android has a far bigger app market than iOS. You most likely will find everything you need in FDroid.
Android’s PIN/password screen is shit. When you press a number, it shows the button you pressed. As you type 6279 or whatever, you see the 6 button flash as you press it.
Anyone looking over your shoulder can basically see your PIN. I miss Cyanogenmod. They altered the lockscreen so the numbers didn’t do anything you type in 6279 and it looks like you’re just touching your screen.
Yeah, not sure if it’s my ROM (DivestOS) or just Android 13, but in Settings > Screen lock I have Enhanced PIN privacy toggle that does just what you’ve described.
I have stock android 13 and I don’t see that option. However, if you use Pattern instead of PIN, there is an option to not show the pattern you draw. This is closest to what OP was looking for. If course, I usually use my fingerprint to login anyway.
If you’re not willing to flash a rom, then it comes down to trusting Apple or Google more. Although, android also has the benefit of a much larger selection of open source utilities that you can easily install from F-Droid. This is enough for me to prefer even stock Android over iOS, because 99% of the apps on my android phone are open source and I feel I can trust them fully.
Custom ROM scene is too sketchy. People install random shit on their phones, eyes wide shut. I’d suggest sticking with Pixel phones. You can use Google’s flash station to install aosp roms if you so desire, it’s safer than whatever is out there on XDA forums.
People really like to crap on apple for reasons justified and not. But when it comes to privacy there’s a pretty clear difference in the track records for Google and Apple. Here are some articles that might be worth a read in helping you decide. Really what it boils down to is what matters most to you. Apple may have the better privacy record, but it also locks you into a garden with very high walls. Google/android architecture may be a lot more versatile and provide more hardware options and customizability, but they will harvest and sell every scrap of data they can get their hands on.
Check out the Fairphone 4/5 running /e/OS. To get a “stock” phone that comes degoogled and ready to use, no tinkering required, you can buy a phone directly from the makers of /e/OS/: Murena
/e/os is often multiple versions behind for their forked apps, including vulnerabilities. Not a good choice from what ive seen. A dev for divestos cataloged the problems iirc
The announcement of the Fairphone 5 was the starting point of my doubts to just get the next iPhone :D. First android phone with a really long promised update duration that I am aware of. Thanks for the tip with eos, will check it out.
Whether Apple or Google collects/abuse more data, I’m not sure.
But I prefer iOS’s design for app security. iOS apps are more restricted than Android apps in general, and when iOS apps require permissions they prompt clearly.
Most Android apps seem to have excessive permissions by default. The Play Store is a mess and the “Data safety” section is worse than useless, with scammers self-declaring the apps as “no data collected”.
The big issues with iPhone I have are overly complicated, overly expensive, walled garden, and so locked down you cannot remote control, and cannot install your own software from your own sources. Researchers cannot even easily reaseach security issues and they do have them.
So with all that, iPhone is a no for me. On the other hand probably more secure. It is also not from an Ad company which is good.
There’s only one phone that runs GrapheneOS so that’s the one I get. If you’re looking at stock phones, apple is the best for privacy and security, but if you really care about those two things you’re probably not just looking at them stock
I second graphene, I grabbed a pixel 6 about a year ago. Flashed graphene after first boot, and have never looked back! Fast, private, light, bleeding edge security updates, storage scopes, etc etc.
Sounds nice. Had any problems with banking apps and authenticatiors? If I remember correctly they sometimes made problems with custom ROMs (at least 5-8 years ago when I last used them 😅)
Feels kind of ironic that you need to get a pixel phone, made by google, to get rid of google.
No issues with banking apps!!! Not for me at least, bootloader gets relocked when installing graphene, I used to maintain a ROM for the s4 back in the day, and knows it was a pain with banking apps due to safetynet I think it was. And ya super ironic its a google phone 😂
With Australian banks there doesn’t seem to be any problems, if you don’t install gplay, you won’t get notifications though. However I think there were some issues with other countries’ banks, but there’s a list somewhere on the GrapheneOS forums/GitHub for all tested banks.
It really does, but unfortunately they simply have the most secure hardware of android phones. At least you’re just paying for the hardware, but don’t have to continue paying with your privacy (or pack of) if you get Graphene
Android is primarily sponsored and advertised by Google, which is basically the world’s largest advertising company that also happens to have an IT department.
iOS is exclusively sponsored and advertised by Apple, which is basically a large IT company that makes most of its money with rather expensive hardware.
One of those is a wiser choice if you care about your privacy.
So hoping apple is not selling my data, because they make enough money with their hardware sales?
This is at least a big difference in the business models of the two companies. Thanks for the input!
What I struggle a little to understand: How does the add business of google affect my privacy? Is not google also collecting the data for internal use only? If they would sell the data, everybody could also target adds like they do. As I understand it they sell add placement and allow the buyer to target a specific group of people, but without selling the data they used to create the profiles. Or am I mixing something up?
Oh listen I TOTALLY believe that it’s better, that’s why I have the iPhone.
HOWEVER, most of these points are what Apple tells me, not verified by a third party research team, so there’s a grain of salt to go along with the statements
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Probably depends largely on how you plan to use it. Android gives you the ability to download FOSS apps from F-Droid (or Obtainium, …). Being unable to do this because of iOS would be a huge minus for me in both usability and privacy/security. If you never plan to use that though, it becomes a lot closer.
If you want the best stock experience, I recommend getting a Google Pixel. It gets fast updates, has 5 years of support and is one of the most secure devices you can get hardware-wise. You also have the option of installing GrapheneOS on it (which is very quick and easy through the web installer), which is likely the best OS for privacy and security. It also gives you the option of using Google Services in a sandbox, which probably doesn’t even feel much different from using stock google android.
deleted by creator
Having a work profile on the phone leaves you with no privacy. Your admin has near unrestricted access to all you store on the phone.
So I’d stick with a separate phone for work altogether. You can expense it in most companies.
Does that extend to samsung secure folder?
How does that even work if you don’t give the app storage permission? Or is the work profile completely different? I’ve got teams and company portal just on my normal bit of the phone.
Is getting a phone from work specifically for work an option? It’s always a pretty bad idea imo to mix work and personal stuff on the same device
If you are a normal user that just wants a bit privacy and no excessive amount of spyware, I guess iOS is the way. Though if you do care about privacy, you can get yourself a pixel phone and flash GrapheneOS, which is far superior to stock android or iOS. It’s FOSS, it has tools that will help with your privacy, etc. Plus android has a far bigger app market than iOS. You most likely will find everything you need in FDroid.
Tho the pixel phone must have the bootloader unlocked, right?
You have to be able to unlock it (no post paid ATT/Verizon/TMO contracted phones), but you can lock the bootloader again after flashing grapheneOS
Android’s PIN/password screen is shit. When you press a number, it shows the button you pressed. As you type 6279 or whatever, you see the 6 button flash as you press it.
Anyone looking over your shoulder can basically see your PIN. I miss Cyanogenmod. They altered the lockscreen so the numbers didn’t do anything you type in 6279 and it looks like you’re just touching your screen.
Yeah, not sure if it’s my ROM (DivestOS) or just Android 13, but in Settings > Screen lock I have Enhanced PIN privacy toggle that does just what you’ve described.
I have stock android 13 and I don’t see that option. However, if you use Pattern instead of PIN, there is an option to not show the pattern you draw. This is closest to what OP was looking for. If course, I usually use my fingerprint to login anyway.
Can someone please implement the lock screen from BlackBerry that was using a picture and a grid of numbers? It was:
Is it patented? Why android doesn’t have it?
Graphene OS fixes this
You’ve used android. You’ve used iOS. Time to get a Linux phone. I’d suggest PinePhone.
Edit - Take a look at this post Open Source sub-lemmy.
Good for testing/shits and giggles. Not for daily driver
100% supporting pine phone, but its not ready for a daily driver replacement
While Apple isn’t perfect, history has shown that they take privacy more seriously than Google.
If you’re not willing to flash a rom, then it comes down to trusting Apple or Google more. Although, android also has the benefit of a much larger selection of open source utilities that you can easily install from F-Droid. This is enough for me to prefer even stock Android over iOS, because 99% of the apps on my android phone are open source and I feel I can trust them fully.
Custom ROM scene is too sketchy. People install random shit on their phones, eyes wide shut. I’d suggest sticking with Pixel phones. You can use Google’s flash station to install aosp roms if you so desire, it’s safer than whatever is out there on XDA forums.
There are plenty of trustworthy ROMs out there. Idk who is installing them from XDA forums, but i’m certainly not.
People really like to crap on apple for reasons justified and not. But when it comes to privacy there’s a pretty clear difference in the track records for Google and Apple. Here are some articles that might be worth a read in helping you decide. Really what it boils down to is what matters most to you. Apple may have the better privacy record, but it also locks you into a garden with very high walls. Google/android architecture may be a lot more versatile and provide more hardware options and customizability, but they will harvest and sell every scrap of data they can get their hands on.
https://9to5mac.com/2022/08/25/apple-collect-less-data-than-other-companies/
https://www.tomsguide.com/face-off/iphone-vs-android
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/ios-vs-android/
https://www.techradar.com/news/google-photos-vs-icloud
Check out the Fairphone 4/5 running /e/OS. To get a “stock” phone that comes degoogled and ready to use, no tinkering required, you can buy a phone directly from the makers of /e/OS/: Murena
/e/os is often multiple versions behind for their forked apps, including vulnerabilities. Not a good choice from what ive seen. A dev for divestos cataloged the problems iirc
The announcement of the Fairphone 5 was the starting point of my doubts to just get the next iPhone :D. First android phone with a really long promised update duration that I am aware of. Thanks for the tip with eos, will check it out.
Fairphone 3 with /e/ is still a viable option if you don’t have the budget for the 4/5!
Whether Apple or Google collects/abuse more data, I’m not sure.
But I prefer iOS’s design for app security. iOS apps are more restricted than Android apps in general, and when iOS apps require permissions they prompt clearly.
Most Android apps seem to have excessive permissions by default. The Play Store is a mess and the “Data safety” section is worse than useless, with scammers self-declaring the apps as “no data collected”.
The big issues with iPhone I have are overly complicated, overly expensive, walled garden, and so locked down you cannot remote control, and cannot install your own software from your own sources. Researchers cannot even easily reaseach security issues and they do have them.
So with all that, iPhone is a no for me. On the other hand probably more secure. It is also not from an Ad company which is good.
There’s only one phone that runs GrapheneOS so that’s the one I get. If you’re looking at stock phones, apple is the best for privacy and security, but if you really care about those two things you’re probably not just looking at them stock
GrapheneOS is the best… there are no comparisons
I second graphene, I grabbed a pixel 6 about a year ago. Flashed graphene after first boot, and have never looked back! Fast, private, light, bleeding edge security updates, storage scopes, etc etc.
Sounds nice. Had any problems with banking apps and authenticatiors? If I remember correctly they sometimes made problems with custom ROMs (at least 5-8 years ago when I last used them 😅)
Feels kind of ironic that you need to get a pixel phone, made by google, to get rid of google.
No issues with banking apps!!! Not for me at least, bootloader gets relocked when installing graphene, I used to maintain a ROM for the s4 back in the day, and knows it was a pain with banking apps due to safetynet I think it was. And ya super ironic its a google phone 😂
With Australian banks there doesn’t seem to be any problems, if you don’t install gplay, you won’t get notifications though. However I think there were some issues with other countries’ banks, but there’s a list somewhere on the GrapheneOS forums/GitHub for all tested banks.
It really does, but unfortunately they simply have the most secure hardware of android phones. At least you’re just paying for the hardware, but don’t have to continue paying with your privacy (or pack of) if you get Graphene
Android is primarily sponsored and advertised by Google, which is basically the world’s largest advertising company that also happens to have an IT department.
iOS is exclusively sponsored and advertised by Apple, which is basically a large IT company that makes most of its money with rather expensive hardware.
One of those is a wiser choice if you care about your privacy.
So hoping apple is not selling my data, because they make enough money with their hardware sales?
This is at least a big difference in the business models of the two companies. Thanks for the input!
What I struggle a little to understand: How does the add business of google affect my privacy? Is not google also collecting the data for internal use only? If they would sell the data, everybody could also target adds like they do. As I understand it they sell add placement and allow the buyer to target a specific group of people, but without selling the data they used to create the profiles. Or am I mixing something up?
More or less, yes. Because they don’t need the money.
Google’s whole business model is selling your private data. Or which product did you buy from them?
You understood capitalism
Until investors start throwing a fit when number doesn’t go up every year for all eternity.
Make no mistake: your data is just as sellable by Apple as anyone else.
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I own an iPhone because Google is evil but….
Make no mistake, Apple has developed their own advertising id and they’re starting to use it to track you just like Google.
In theory it’s more private, but in practice it’s hard to say for sure.
A few massive differences:
You opt-in to targeted tracking with Apple. It’s impossible to opt-out with Google. Apple also enforces per-app opt-in for tracking.
Apple use your data, but they don’t sell it on
Apple features protect you from 3rd party tracking at a software level (Private Relay) and hardware level (MAC randomisation)
deleted by creator
Oh listen I TOTALLY believe that it’s better, that’s why I have the iPhone.
HOWEVER, most of these points are what Apple tells me, not verified by a third party research team, so there’s a grain of salt to go along with the statements
Some phones can have GrapheneOS.
I made the switch to Pixel last year and I can tell you that the ads on it are far more precise than on iPhone.
FDroid and Open Source are good.
Funny, on my subscription list the post right below yours addresses exactly that…but its an ad of sorts
https://monero.town/post/444517