I’m sure a lot of this is going on … but this article is pretty poor.
First of all, they are hawking a VPN product. So it is in their interest to make the problem seem big.
Second, they argue VPN can shield against cookies. That’s to do with the browser, not the connection.
Third, their frequent use of the loaded “artificial intelligence” just bothers me … most of the algorithms they describe has nothing to do with AI/ML, but sounds like fairly simple, rules-based decisions. In fact, if I was interested is giving a discount to people who lived close to a competitor of mine, training an ML algorithm to do it sounds error-prone and poor.
We are recommending VPNs in general, but are not “hawking” or selling a specific one.
Second, we did not say a VPN hides against cookies. Cookies can easily be erased in the browser. This article is discussing browser fingerprints, which neither a VPN nor cookies deal with. Your reading comprehension is shockingly low.
“Simplified Privacy is here to help with a VPN solution that can obscure your browser fingerprint and enable you to step back and more clearly see discrimination.”
That sounded like hawking a specific product; I’m sure you could understand why.
You are arguing in the article that a VPN helps obscuring your browser fingerprint - and then say in your response to me that it can’t.
Don’t get me wrong - I support the aims of what you’re trying to achieve. My criticism is to address specific points in the article, not reject your noble aim.
Ah ok, that was meant for someone who wants to setup OpenVPN on a VPS that they can SSH into. But this person does not want to do the work. So the company can provide the service of setting up what you like on a VPS
This has been going on for years, including inside the EU, for those wondering. You can test to see if it happens for you by going to a flight website, getting a price for a flight, then go back a few times to search for the same flight.
The question of what you do to fight it is by clearing the cookie for the website, using a different browser and/or changing your location/block tracking (use a VPN or tor). Usually clearing the cookie is enough.
If clearing the cookie works, then this is not browser fingerprinting. Browser fingerprinting is about storing information about your browser (screen size, languages enabled, user agent, canvas rendering, and more) you can find whether this information is unique for your browser in https://amiunique.org/
You have to understand that that number is grossly skewed and completely meaningless. Think of the person who would be most likely to use that website. It’s logical to assume that many of them are Firefox users, who tend to be more privacy oriented. I doubt your average chrome or safari user is worrying about their privacy. Probably only Reddit or Lemmy users (or other tech forum users) have even heard of this website. The actual market share of Firefox is low as fuck. I think it was like 1% lol. So uea, of coirse that website is going to show a ton of Firefox users by % of total users.
Edit: Just in case it wasn’t clear. The 42% is the % of firefox users out of THE USERS OF THAT WEBSITE, not actual Firefox user %.
How badly does resist fingerprinting break sites? And what is the best way to fix it when it breaks? Is using Firefox but not using resist fingerprinting stupid?
Not sure but this sounds like it would already be illegal in Europe but I can’t find anything concrete. Prices are the same when checking different stores via VPN though.
It is illegal in Europe as GDPR doesn’t talk about cookies but about collecting and trakcing user data and granting permission for it. So, if the user refuses the form and you still collect their browser fingerprint, then that’s illegal.
Some of the behaviors in the article are illegal in the USA too, but the companies continue doing it, even after losing multiple court battles. It must be more profitable to break the law for them, which is a problem of its own.
Firefox has an experimental feature to block your fingerprint. A few things I’ve seen make me think it works (Google thought I was running Windows NT not Linux, among other things):
On android, firefox doesnt have the same option. But, you can use a browser like Mull (a firefox fork) which has all rhe same options as desktop, with the privacy settings of tor browser enabled by default - no fingerprints. (They’ll be fake and new every time)
You can try chameleon on ff but I haven’t fully tested it myself. Could also modify config value if u don’t want an extension but u need to look up the values and it can be quite tedious.
I guess my issue is that I want an extension to automatically plug in all the different user agents, geolocations, etc. to find the cheapest one. Having an extension to enable me to change these things myself is nice but not what I’d find most useful, you know?
I dont see that as an possibility given all the complications. You can make a custom extension work for a particular site to fetch the price and go through a shit ton of possible variations of browser, os, screen resolution and all those sht that goes in the fingerprint, reloading the page everytime but that would be awfully ineffective and slow. And making a generalized extension that can do the same for every website is pretty much impossible.
If it’s for a specific website, it shouldn’t be that hard to whip up a python script using selenium. It might not work for everything but you can change location and user agent from what I remember
Someone posted about a website called canvas blocker to your original comment that could find the fingerprint, I haven’t got a chance to test it myself but you can try it out and let me know if it was any good.
I’m guessing someone will have to figure out the algorithms through reverse engineering for each site then put together an extension. I will need to have some kind of vpn to change the ip address though.
update
The best way to fight this is to make it illegal.
If I remember correctly, changing my location to the places I’m booking a flight to, and contrary to what the article says, certain less wealthy nations would sometimes have a cheaper price.
I’ve seen this happen with flights in a different way - I repeatedly check the same flights over and over and have noticed the price going up across multiple views even on the same day.
Try using a different browser.
Try canvas blocker/fingerprint blocker plugins.
Try deleting history, cache, cookies,and site settings.
Try ublock origin to block 3rd party scripts and frames.
I tried that, and it didn’t seem to make a difference. My guess is they count the searches and use that data, or my number of privacy tools has made my fingerprint more unique ky the lack of trackers.
I know a lot of organizations do so, but not as a home user.
I have had to do so professionally due to some old yet expensive equipment that only output to software that only runs on 98 or XP, but those machines are not allowed on any networks, not even local ones.
Actually not sure if XP can even use a modern enough browser to access most of the web.
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No reason to shop online, or anywhere honestly. Down with consumerism and Capitalism.
“Some examples here will surprise you”
Do companies that do this much more common practice than you’d think that is also illegal also hate this one simple trick?
I’m sure a lot of this is going on … but this article is pretty poor.
First of all, they are hawking a VPN product. So it is in their interest to make the problem seem big.
Second, they argue VPN can shield against cookies. That’s to do with the browser, not the connection.
Third, their frequent use of the loaded “artificial intelligence” just bothers me … most of the algorithms they describe has nothing to do with AI/ML, but sounds like fairly simple, rules-based decisions. In fact, if I was interested is giving a discount to people who lived close to a competitor of mine, training an ML algorithm to do it sounds error-prone and poor.
We are recommending VPNs in general, but are not “hawking” or selling a specific one.
Second, we did not say a VPN hides against cookies. Cookies can easily be erased in the browser. This article is discussing browser fingerprints, which neither a VPN nor cookies deal with. Your reading comprehension is shockingly low.
Or maybe it wasn’t written well?
“Simplified Privacy is here to help with a VPN solution that can obscure your browser fingerprint and enable you to step back and more clearly see discrimination.”
That sounded like hawking a specific product; I’m sure you could understand why.
You are arguing in the article that a VPN helps obscuring your browser fingerprint - and then say in your response to me that it can’t.
Don’t get me wrong - I support the aims of what you’re trying to achieve. My criticism is to address specific points in the article, not reject your noble aim.
Ah ok, that was meant for someone who wants to setup OpenVPN on a VPS that they can SSH into. But this person does not want to do the work. So the company can provide the service of setting up what you like on a VPS
Reminds me of those udemy pricing “deals”, so scummy
on my way to change my browser fingerprint so it will be sold for less
I’ve heard of the idea of charging some people more depending on how much they are willing to pay but I thought it wasn’t done yet, wow
This has been going on for years, including inside the EU, for those wondering. You can test to see if it happens for you by going to a flight website, getting a price for a flight, then go back a few times to search for the same flight.
The question of what you do to fight it is by clearing the cookie for the website, using a different browser and/or changing your location/block tracking (use a VPN or tor). Usually clearing the cookie is enough.
If clearing the cookie works, then this is not browser fingerprinting. Browser fingerprinting is about storing information about your browser (screen size, languages enabled, user agent, canvas rendering, and more) you can find whether this information is unique for your browser in https://amiunique.org/
Firefox has a newer feature to apparently block your browser fingerprinting. Go to about:config and search “fingerprint”.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-protection-against-fingerprinting
Ironically by using Firefox you’re already completely unique since Firefox has like 0.5% marke share lol.
Firefox users check this out (if you didn’t see my reply above):
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-protection-against-fingerprinting
42.65% according to the website they linked.
You have to understand that that number is grossly skewed and completely meaningless. Think of the person who would be most likely to use that website. It’s logical to assume that many of them are Firefox users, who tend to be more privacy oriented. I doubt your average chrome or safari user is worrying about their privacy. Probably only Reddit or Lemmy users (or other tech forum users) have even heard of this website. The actual market share of Firefox is low as fuck. I think it was like 1% lol. So uea, of coirse that website is going to show a ton of Firefox users by % of total users.
Edit: Just in case it wasn’t clear. The 42% is the % of firefox users out of THE USERS OF THAT WEBSITE, not actual Firefox user %.
I’m probably 89% of the 42%.
I enjoy refreshing the page to see my browser fingerpriny say %100 unique.
Every time.
If you don’t use “resist fingerprints” in firefox, or don’t use firefox, use a canvas blocker plugin.
And turn off webrtc, webgl2; use ublock origin plugin, block 3rd party cookies, and clear your damn cache and history.
How badly does resist fingerprinting break sites? And what is the best way to fix it when it breaks? Is using Firefox but not using resist fingerprinting stupid?
It has never broken any site i have used.
You are close, it seems Firefox is estimate to a max of 3 percent and dropping.
Thanks mate !
Where money is concerned, corporation like to operate any way that they think they can until fined sufficiently for it to be a deterrant
In the article it said Facebook has been sued and fined multiple times and continues the behavior.
And they will, as long as the fine is lower than their income of breaking the law.
They see fines as a cost of doing business.
Ah thanks, updated my comment to be clearer. Much appreciated
At some point we need to start jailing the decision makers at companies . Fines just become another post in the balance sheet.
If the fines are small, it’s just another cost of doing business.
Not sure but this sounds like it would already be illegal in Europe but I can’t find anything concrete. Prices are the same when checking different stores via VPN though.
It is illegal in Europe as GDPR doesn’t talk about cookies but about collecting and trakcing user data and granting permission for it. So, if the user refuses the form and you still collect their browser fingerprint, then that’s illegal.
Some of the behaviors in the article are illegal in the USA too, but the companies continue doing it, even after losing multiple court battles. It must be more profitable to break the law for them, which is a problem of its own.
It’s the cost of doing business for these corporations. Make billions, pay a 6-figure fine, maybe.
If its legal for them to do it, it must also be legal to exploit it.
Fake your geolocation to something like the null island, Antarctica or whatever to see if distance makes a difference.
What can we do about this? Do any browser add-ons exist to test different locations and different browser fingerprints to find the lowest price?
Firefox has an experimental feature to block your fingerprint. A few things I’ve seen make me think it works (Google thought I was running Windows NT not Linux, among other things):
Not to spam the thread with this link:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-protection-against-fingerprinting
They do.
Canvas blocker is one.
If you use firefox (desktop), you dont need a plugin. Go to about:config find privacy.resistFingerprinting
Double click and flip from false to true.
Done.
Go to browserleaks.com/canvas and check your fingerprint.
On android, firefox doesnt have the same option. But, you can use a browser like Mull (a firefox fork) which has all rhe same options as desktop, with the privacy settings of tor browser enabled by default - no fingerprints. (They’ll be fake and new every time)
You can try chameleon on ff but I haven’t fully tested it myself. Could also modify config value if u don’t want an extension but u need to look up the values and it can be quite tedious.
I guess my issue is that I want an extension to automatically plug in all the different user agents, geolocations, etc. to find the cheapest one. Having an extension to enable me to change these things myself is nice but not what I’d find most useful, you know?
I dont see that as an possibility given all the complications. You can make a custom extension work for a particular site to fetch the price and go through a shit ton of possible variations of browser, os, screen resolution and all those sht that goes in the fingerprint, reloading the page everytime but that would be awfully ineffective and slow. And making a generalized extension that can do the same for every website is pretty much impossible.
Ah, that’s what I was afraid of. Oh well. I see what you mean.
If it’s for a specific website, it shouldn’t be that hard to whip up a python script using selenium. It might not work for everything but you can change location and user agent from what I remember
Someone posted about a website called canvas blocker to your original comment that could find the fingerprint, I haven’t got a chance to test it myself but you can try it out and let me know if it was any good.
You might want to consider faking your geolocation. That’s how people played Pokemon Go.
I’m guessing someone will have to figure out the algorithms through reverse engineering for each site then put together an extension. I will need to have some kind of vpn to change the ip address though.
update The best way to fight this is to make it illegal.
deleted by creator
I’ve seen this happen with flights. Depending on where I set my VPN, the prices will change.
Any particular regions/countries that you’ve identified that seem to regularly result in lower prices?
If I remember correctly, changing my location to the places I’m booking a flight to, and contrary to what the article says, certain less wealthy nations would sometimes have a cheaper price.
Shouldn’t this become illegal?
It is in many places with consumer protections.
Dunno about legality, but most likely against TOS
I’ve seen this happen with flights in a different way - I repeatedly check the same flights over and over and have noticed the price going up across multiple views even on the same day.
I used to clear my cache, and that would help, bet it hasn’t changed anything the last time, so I guess they figured out that workaround.
Try using a different browser. Try canvas blocker/fingerprint blocker plugins. Try deleting history, cache, cookies,and site settings. Try ublock origin to block 3rd party scripts and frames.
I tried that, and it didn’t seem to make a difference. My guess is they count the searches and use that data, or my number of privacy tools has made my fingerprint more unique ky the lack of trackers.
I regularly get more expensive prices when browsing on my Apple stuff than my GF on her Android.
I commonly hear to not browse some websites from a Macbook, once some sites check the browser + screen resolution, their prices go 📈🤑
:O very cool. Didn’t know about this. I wonder if it will get more discounted if I use a windows xp computer.
I’m setting up a Windows 98 VM with a VGA display for online shopping.
Anyone who would connect an XP machine to the modern Internet should’t be allowed on commercial flights
Just use a jailed VM. Once you’re done, delete it. problem solved.
As I said elsewhere, my issue has always been equipment that only communicates with XP, so there is no deleting it, and it really needs to work.
No one when I worked there was willing to try (or let me try) any kind of VM. Mostly do to the proprietary PCI connector card that it used.
Your face when I tell you about technical infrastructure used by airlines: 🤯🤯🤯
I know a lot of organizations do so, but not as a home user.
I have had to do so professionally due to some old yet expensive equipment that only output to software that only runs on 98 or XP, but those machines are not allowed on any networks, not even local ones.
Actually not sure if XP can even use a modern enough browser to access most of the web.
Those are generally not connected to the internet
A ducky USB with integrated Wifi will handle that limitation nicely 🙃
Yea…they are notorious for price gouging