What price privacy? End-to-end encrypted (E2EE) messaging app Signal has put out an interesting overview of the costs required to develop and maintain its End-to-end encrypted messaging app Signal has put out an interesting overview of the costs required to develop and maintain its pro-privacy systems.
does anyone know roughly how much operating costs could be per person? I’d like to donate, but I don’t have a whole lot of money. I’d like to at least ensure that I’m covering “my share” so to speak
Signal had 40 million active users in 2021. With 14 million in infra cost, that comes to .35 per user/year. Total expenses are about 33 million, so about .825 per user/year. All in all that seems very reasonable.
Same. I’ve been supporting it for some years now, but I’m upping the ante. I have many friends, family, and business associates I’ve been able to get on Signal. It’s a super useful app, and a crucial privacy service. Let’s do what we can to keep it going.
Umm, doesn’t one have to backup anything one wants to save/ have access to in the future? Aren’t upgrades a thing will all software? I’m not sure how this is different for Signal versus any other messaging app. Or any app / client that produces documents, etc?
The process is a bit involved on mobile. Setting up a backup location, using a third party app to sync updates and deletions etc. It could be simplified by integrating with common cloud storage services (the encrypted file)
Also iOS doesn’t have backups at all last I checked. If you lose your phone the messages are toast
Well sure, but encrypted backups are still secure. What’s not secure (or private rather) is someone realizing they can’t have a backup of important chats and going back to Facebook Messenger.
Backups are a thing on Android, and they’re planned for iOS. It just hasn’t happened yet. People can choose what they want to backup and when they want disappearing messages turned on.
Actually it does not, sadly. I’ve used it for years (probably five or even more) and ditched it couple months ago when I got angry at it. The main problem is I could not force it to accept MMS on newer android (used to work on my old phone IIRC) which is crucial for my work - because voice mail gets delivered as MMS in my country. Every time I got work phone call that I missed meant voice mail that never got delivered. I got notification that I have MMS, and that I need to allow them, but that’s it. Everything was allowed in the app and in the systsm, still no MMS.
Bit difficult to keep using it since they killed sms interoperability. I understand the security concerns but if no one uses it, doesn’t really matter does it.
If you were using Signal just for SMS, none of your messages were secure anyway since the SMS protocol itself is not–defeating the purpose of signal. And if you had already convinced people to install Signal by using SMS as a caveat, you can just continue contacting them through the app.
I was able to convince pretty much everyone who matter in my life to install Signal and they all love it because WhatsApp has become too cluttered and spammy.
I can’t get anyone to use it. They should market it as a workaround for the Android/iPhone/PC messaging issues with privacy and security as a bonus, but I don’t know if iPhone users would go for it.
iPhone user and monthly signal donor here. Have been using it since it was available for signal. Have managed to get everyone I care about to install and use it.
I basically made it the only way to message me and get my attention.
I’m not that special, I just care about my friends and I think they might like me enough to do this one thing for me. At least they know they can cut me out of their lives by uninstalling signal.
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another reason why centralization sucks and distributed/decentralized messengers should rise to the top over time.
I’ve been donating at $5/ month for a couple years to help keep it going but I feel I can do that down a bit
does anyone know roughly how much operating costs could be per person? I’d like to donate, but I don’t have a whole lot of money. I’d like to at least ensure that I’m covering “my share” so to speak
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38291950
So it should be pretty easy to cover your own costs and maybe that of a couple of friends to make the transaction fees worth it :)
so $1 a year would cover it? might as well covery whole family at that point. think I can afford $5 a year lol
Funny, that’s in line with the $1 a year WhatsApp was going to charge.
Sounds like just $5 will pay for me and 4 others, so that’s nice.
Haha exactly, by that calculation $1 a year would cover you and two others. Get that family onboard :)
This Lemmy post caused me to start a monthly Signal donation. Support non profit messaging and social media.
Still a bit angry though about them dropping SMS support and forcing me into Google Messages.
They were kinda forced to, having to choose between two evils: https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-blog-removing-sms-support-from-signal-android-very-soon/47954/57
I hadn’t seen that, thanks!! I was also among those confused when Signal pulled SMS, but now it finally makes sense.
Signal could have done better PR to explain the “why” at the time.
Use Molly instead. There are 2 versions, one FOSS one and one with some proprietary data (notification stuff).
Same. I’ve been supporting it for some years now, but I’m upping the ante. I have many friends, family, and business associates I’ve been able to get on Signal. It’s a super useful app, and a crucial privacy service. Let’s do what we can to keep it going.
The biggest thing for me right now is backups
I can’t comfortably recommend it to people that will lose access if they lose their phones / upgrade without following the process perfectly
Umm, doesn’t one have to backup anything one wants to save/ have access to in the future? Aren’t upgrades a thing will all software? I’m not sure how this is different for Signal versus any other messaging app. Or any app / client that produces documents, etc?
The process is a bit involved on mobile. Setting up a backup location, using a third party app to sync updates and deletions etc. It could be simplified by integrating with common cloud storage services (the encrypted file)
Also iOS doesn’t have backups at all last I checked. If you lose your phone the messages are toast
I just checked the Signal Support (https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007059752-Backup-and-Restore-Messages). And it appears there is a method generally, but not for iOS. Tho’ screenshots work. And I understand how not backing up, and disappearing messages contribute to security.
Well sure, but encrypted backups are still secure. What’s not secure (or private rather) is someone realizing they can’t have a backup of important chats and going back to Facebook Messenger.
Backups are a thing on Android, and they’re planned for iOS. It just hasn’t happened yet. People can choose what they want to backup and when they want disappearing messages turned on.
Pretty sure Fdroid has a basic messaging app or two that might fit the bill so you don’t have to use google.
https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-blog-removing-sms-support-from-signal-android-very-soon/47954/57
Apparently there’s no RCS API so any 3rd party app will disappear at some point (if RCS becomes the popular protocol)
That’s frustrating. Here’s to hoping someone will come up with a FOSS solution.
Google Message? Why? QKSMS work well
Actually it does not, sadly. I’ve used it for years (probably five or even more) and ditched it couple months ago when I got angry at it. The main problem is I could not force it to accept MMS on newer android (used to work on my old phone IIRC) which is crucial for my work - because voice mail gets delivered as MMS in my country. Every time I got work phone call that I missed meant voice mail that never got delivered. I got notification that I have MMS, and that I need to allow them, but that’s it. Everything was allowed in the app and in the systsm, still no MMS.
Bit difficult to keep using it since they killed sms interoperability. I understand the security concerns but if no one uses it, doesn’t really matter does it.
If you were using Signal just for SMS, none of your messages were secure anyway since the SMS protocol itself is not–defeating the purpose of signal. And if you had already convinced people to install Signal by using SMS as a caveat, you can just continue contacting them through the app.
I was able to convince pretty much everyone who matter in my life to install Signal and they all love it because WhatsApp has become too cluttered and spammy.
It does because it’s code you have to take into account when adding new features. Basically unnecessary pain in the ass.
I can’t get anyone to use it. They should market it as a workaround for the Android/iPhone/PC messaging issues with privacy and security as a bonus, but I don’t know if iPhone users would go for it.
iPhone user and monthly signal donor here. Have been using it since it was available for signal. Have managed to get everyone I care about to install and use it.
I basically made it the only way to message me and get my attention.
I’m not that special, I just care about my friends and I think they might like me enough to do this one thing for me. At least they know they can cut me out of their lives by uninstalling signal.
It’s a very interesting read, this is the second year in a row that I donate to the project. I encourage you to do it as well.