Cloudflare is one of the biggest privacy violators. They effectively act as a MITM which has your SSL keys and can read all the traffic between your browser and a website. Now imagine a single entity having the SSL keys to read the traffic of an important portion of the internet.
Their tunnel uses TLS termination. When we use TLS/SSL certificates on a server, we want the data to be encrypted between your server and the clients connecting to it. When you use Cloudflare’s tunnel, that TLS connection is terminated, that is, decrypted on their servers and then it is re-encrypted and sent to your client. So, theoretically, they can look at all the data going through. But do they sniff in to your data, that is upto what you believe.
If you are self-hosting for privacy, this is a bad idea. Free solutions like Cloudflare and Tailscale all do TLS termination. What you want is TLS pass through. You can rent a small VPS and set up TLS pass through using something very simple, like HAProxy, NGINX Proxy etc.
What does “censorship” mean? The entire purpose of a search engine is to “censor” bad results so I would argue that they all have censorship. And if they don’t they’re probably a bad search engine.
Yes, the term censorship in this context is particularly infuriating to me. It’s not censorship since these are privately owned websites that can link to whatever they like, and users can choose whether or not to use them. When DuckDuckGo launched, before privacy concerns were such a pressing issue the fact that they filtered poor quality sources was one of their most advertised selling points: https://www.technologyreview.com/2010/07/26/26327/the-search-engine-backlash-against-content-mills/
Isn’t it just enough to use Google with Firefox in a Google container (and uBlockOrigin and Canvas locker)?
In this way no search can be tied up to me.
P.s. I also have the plugin Google search link fix, but I’m not sure it’s needed with the Google container
Maybe someone can ELI5 how Kagi works then. Yes, I read all their documentation, but I’m still not convinced on the “100% privacy-respecting”. In our world of proprietary back ends with peepers, cloud backdoors along with home assistants and cars that say “we don’t listen”, but suddenly have evidence when they need it - How can we trust Kagi? They say;
no telemetry, ads, or collection of private information
and
we do not log searches or in any way tie them to an account
But there’s “plans” that count your searches per month, so that is attributed to your account. They can tell if you use a bang, so they do have the ability to see what you search for. They also see if you reload the same search, so it knows exactly what you searched for. They can tell the difference between images and news and whether you’re loading more content, and attribute that to your account.
What I’m hearing is that we’re supposed to trust them when they say “hey guys, we don’t look even though we can/could see everything”? Is that it?
It’s most likely an API linked to your logged in account that counts each search performed and logs it against your account. You don’t need to see a user’s search to track that information.
That sounds reasonable and likely the method. Would you indulge a few more relevant questions? Could that API also know your search term without sharing it? How can we know that the API is not being abused? And, can access to an API like that be shared, or hacked? Are we still at “we don’t look even though we could”?
My favourite search engine, Ecosia, is listed. I’d prefer if they didn’t log IPs, but their cause is so good and effective that it’s worth it to me. I can use a VPN if it bothers me.
That should definitely be linked for context of this “data”
Edit: That article directly calls 4get “the best search engine”, and the diagram implies that to be the case as well. Given that 4get has existed for 4 days I just find everything else from the author to be very suspect. This should at least have the author’s context added or more of a heads-up that this isn’t exactly rigorous data. 4get’s current audit status is just trust me bro, which I find difficult when the entire rest of the about page is filled with immaturity.
I found someone on 4chan that wouldn’t stop announcing this engine on /g/, most likely the owner as well. And seeing that the name is 4get, it probably started there
Publicly existed. It was announced 4 days ago. The author said they have been working on it for a full year now, but until they release it there’s really no way for third parties to be using it and forming opinions.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !privacyguides@lemmy.one
In the digital age, protecting your personal information might seem like an impossible task. We’re here to help.
This is a community for sharing news about privacy, posting information about cool privacy tools and services, and getting advice about your privacy journey.
You can subscribe to this community from any Kbin or Lemmy instance:
Check out our website at privacyguides.org before asking your questions here. We’ve tried answering the common questions and recommendations there!
Want to get involved? The website is open-source on GitHub, and your help would be appreciated!
This community is the “official” Privacy Guides community on Lemmy, which can be verified here. Other “Privacy Guides” communities on other Lemmy servers are not moderated by this team or associated with the website.
Moderation Rules:
We prefer posting about open-source software whenever possible.
No soliciting engagement: Don’t ask for upvotes, follows, etc.
Surveys, Fundraising, and Petitions must be pre-approved by the mod team.
Be civil, no violence, hate speech. Assume people here are posting in good faith.
Don’t repost topics which have already been covered here.
News posts must be related to privacy and security, and your post title must match the article headline exactly. Do not editorialize titles, you can post your opinions in the post body or a comment.
Memes/images/video posts that could be summarized as text explanations should not be posted. Infographics and conference talks from reputable sources are acceptable.
No help vampires: This is not a tech support subreddit, don’t abuse our community’s willingness to help. Questions related to privacy, security or privacy/security related software and their configurations are acceptable.
No misinformation: Extraordinary claims must be matched with evidence.
Do not post about VPNs or cryptocurrencies which are not listed on privacyguides.org. See Rule 2 for info on adding new recommendations to the website.
General guides or software lists are not permitted. Original sources and research about specific topics are allowed as long as they are high quality and factual. We are not providing a platform for poorly-vetted, out-of-date or conflicting recommendations.
You should give credit to digdeeper.
What about Yacy? I didn’t see that mentioned. I haven’t used it before, but I’ve heard you can self-host it and it offers decentralized search.
Why is kagi not on the list?
What does “cloudflare so who cares lol” mean exactly?
Cloudflare is so good that you don’t even have to care about your privacy because they’ve got it covered?
or
Nobody who uses Cloudflare would care about privacy, and for some reason that’s worthy of a “lol”?
or what?
Cloudflare is one of the biggest privacy violators. They effectively act as a MITM which has your SSL keys and can read all the traffic between your browser and a website. Now imagine a single entity having the SSL keys to read the traffic of an important portion of the internet.
Oh and they block Tor and VPN users too.
Cloudflare is bad.
Care to explain? I just set up zero trust Tunnel with them 😶
Their tunnel uses TLS termination. When we use TLS/SSL certificates on a server, we want the data to be encrypted between your server and the clients connecting to it. When you use Cloudflare’s tunnel, that TLS connection is terminated, that is, decrypted on their servers and then it is re-encrypted and sent to your client. So, theoretically, they can look at all the data going through. But do they sniff in to your data, that is upto what you believe.
If you are self-hosting for privacy, this is a bad idea. Free solutions like Cloudflare and Tailscale all do TLS termination. What you want is TLS pass through. You can rent a small VPS and set up TLS pass through using something very simple, like HAProxy, NGINX Proxy etc.
This seems awful opinionated.
What does “censorship” mean? The entire purpose of a search engine is to “censor” bad results so I would argue that they all have censorship. And if they don’t they’re probably a bad search engine.
Yes, the term censorship in this context is particularly infuriating to me. It’s not censorship since these are privately owned websites that can link to whatever they like, and users can choose whether or not to use them. When DuckDuckGo launched, before privacy concerns were such a pressing issue the fact that they filtered poor quality sources was one of their most advertised selling points: https://www.technologyreview.com/2010/07/26/26327/the-search-engine-backlash-against-content-mills/
…what exactly do you think censorship is? Are you under the impression that this is something only the government can do?
Not exactly, no, but a website can’t reasonably be expected to cover everything and that wouldn’t be desirable either.
Also the meaning of “censorship” can depend wildly based on your own opinions and political beliefs.
The correct term to use would have been “Result filtering”, as “censorship” is completely subjective.
Ok… so how would I get 4get to work?
https://4get.ca/
Isn’t it just enough to use Google with Firefox in a Google container (and uBlockOrigin and Canvas locker)? In this way no search can be tied up to me.
P.s. I also have the plugin Google search link fix, but I’m not sure it’s needed with the Google container
laughs through my pi-hole
They have SearX but not Whoogle. If you just want a search proxy and only want the core features I highly recommend it.
I didn’t know that one. Very interesting! Thanks for sharing
Maybe someone can ELI5 how Kagi works then. Yes, I read all their documentation, but I’m still not convinced on the “100% privacy-respecting”. In our world of proprietary back ends with peepers, cloud backdoors along with home assistants and cars that say “we don’t listen”, but suddenly have evidence when they need it - How can we trust Kagi? They say;
and
But there’s “plans” that count your searches per month, so that is attributed to your account. They can tell if you use a bang, so they do have the ability to see what you search for. They also see if you reload the same search, so it knows exactly what you searched for. They can tell the difference between images and news and whether you’re loading more content, and attribute that to your account.
What I’m hearing is that we’re supposed to trust them when they say “hey guys, we don’t look even though we can/could see everything”? Is that it?
It’s most likely an API linked to your logged in account that counts each search performed and logs it against your account. You don’t need to see a user’s search to track that information.
That sounds reasonable and likely the method. Would you indulge a few more relevant questions? Could that API also know your search term without sharing it? How can we know that the API is not being abused? And, can access to an API like that be shared, or hacked? Are we still at “we don’t look even though we could”?
My favourite search engine, Ecosia, is listed. I’d prefer if they didn’t log IPs, but their cause is so good and effective that it’s worth it to me. I can use a VPN if it bothers me.
This! And switching to DDG or others if TOR is needed.
I’ve never heard about Ecosia, what is the good cause?
They spend their revenue on planting trees
Are you the creator of 4get, OP? Your account is 4 days old, the same age as the post announcing 4get on reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/16emfv0/4get_a_proxy_search_engine_that_doesnt_suck/
Why not just announce your project normally here instead of this biased chart?
I’m not the creator of 4get, the chart is from here: https://digdeeper.club/articles/search.xhtml
That should definitely be linked for context of this “data”
Edit: That article directly calls 4get “the best search engine”, and the diagram implies that to be the case as well. Given that 4get has existed for 4 days I just find everything else from the author to be very suspect. This should at least have the author’s context added or more of a heads-up that this isn’t exactly rigorous data. 4get’s current audit status is just trust me bro, which I find difficult when the entire rest of the about page is filled with immaturity.
I found someone on 4chan that wouldn’t stop announcing this engine on /g/, most likely the owner as well. And seeing that the name is 4get, it probably started there
4get has existed for at least 1 month, judging by the git activity https://git.lolcat.ca/lolcat/4get/activity/yearly
Publicly existed. It was announced 4 days ago. The author said they have been working on it for a full year now, but until they release it there’s really no way for third parties to be using it and forming opinions.
What’s up with cloud flare?
Too much power
+1 for Kagi
List is immediately disqualified for not including LibreX. Shame.