"I know for a fact that Wikipedia operates under a CC BY-SA 4.0 license, which explicitly states that if you’re going to use the data, you must give attribution. As far as search engines go, they can get away with it because linking back to a Wikipedia article on the same page as the search results is considered attribution.
But in the case of Brave, not only are they disregarding the license - they’re also charging money for the data and then giving third parties “rights” to that data."
I’d like to shout out Mull (Firefox based) and Mulch (Chrome based) web browsers. They are basically more secure and private versions of those app and they maintained by the devs of DivestOS which is the privacy Android OS that is recommended for devices that aren’t Pixels.
privacytools.io is no longer the recommended one since the mod/domain owner split a long while ago, it now heavily endorses ads (such as nordvpn) you instead should use
If the whole selling point of a browser is security/privacy you shouldn’t have to check any boxes to make it work as advertised. It’s not a great browser or worthy of trust.
On Android, Firefox lacks per-site process isolation, which makes it less secure than Chromium browsers (not insecure, just less secure.)
With privacy.resistFingerprinting on, Firefox on Android is stuck at 60hz, which I don’t like.
There is a noticeable difference in performance between Firefox and Chromium. Firefox is consistently slower when loading webpages, which you notice after using Chromium.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Firefox. I use LibreWolf on desktop. I just can’t justify using it on Android, at least not yet. Guess I’ll go back to using Vanadium.
This might not matter to 60hz users but to the ones used to 120hz, it is jarring to go back to 60hz. Everything feels a split second slower and animations look pretty choppy.
It is a setting in the about:config menu on FireFox Beta and Nightly. When enabled, the browser tries to hide certain information about your browser and device from websites.
When I switched from Chrome to Firefox Mobile I didn’t notice any slowdown. I’m surprised you noticed anything because presumably your phone is newer than mine, since I’ve only got a 60Hz display in the first place.
Is that shady? Arent all other AI companies + many other data gather services doing exactly the same thing. We need to wait for the court cases to conclude if AI datasets can use publicly available information for training.
Thank you. I’ve always used Firefox and when Brave came out I thought I’d give it a go, been using it about 50/50 with Firefox. After reading this I’ll be getting rid of Brave!
It’s a shame. I like what Brave was at the beginning.
Well fuck, what am I supposed to use? I use bitwarden for passwords, so that shit works everywhere, but I want a mobile browser and a desktop browser that share history. Being able to share tabs between devices is a nice bonus.
Firefox on mobile is hot garbage with infuriating UI bugs. I keep trying to switch to it, and keep switching away after a few days.
What issues are you encountering on android Firefox? I’ve used Firefox + ublock for years and I don’t think I have ever encountered an issue that was fixed by using chrome instead.
Maybe I’m just cursed then. When full screening a video in landscape there’s a 30% chance the tab will freak out and close. When I scroll sometimes the content doesn’t move, but the menu bars show up as if I was scrolling. Trying to swipe through google images takes several tries before it will stick. These are just a few problems, I’m sure I’ve seen more.
May not be as ideal as it requires manual selection but Chromium has a visible share button for QR on the address bar. Or you can use Pushbullet/Join/KDE Connect to share links with your phone.
I liked Brave for a while. But slowly things just started to feel sketchy to me. Their weird insistence on putting their crypto bullshit and wallet services in your face. I just felt like, “I want a browser. Can’t you just be a fucking browser?” At a certain point adding all these other ‘services’ they just end up just a weird-ass money making scheme, like they’re two steps away from using my computer for crypto mining.
I used Brave for quite a while after having some kind of problem with mobile firefox. It got worse and worse the whole time, it defaults to a home screen with ads on it now. I assumed they got bought out or something a while ago. Sad to say but not really shocked that they’re doing some kind of aggressive data collection.
Thanks for the links. It looks like they engaged, but it is a little waffley, and it doesn’t exactly explain why they purchased them and where they see the ROI. If they are investing capital, they would need a return to make it profitable. It didn’t touch of whether they were after ad space without data (non targetted which isn’t worth a lot less, but may guarantee real estate), or a paid for service where Startpage will generate it’s own profits from services. Without further clarification, it doesn’t sit comfortably.
I have the same concerns. There’s got to be some reason they invested, and no matter how much they claim it doesn’t impact privacy, I don’t trust any ad agency whatsoever. Their whole business is deception and lies.
Honestly I don’t care about his political beliefs, and Brave search is the only competitve independent search engine out there, it’s genuinely a joy to use.
Until AI crawling gets banned they aren’t doing anything wrong.
Brave continues to be the best mainstream private browser, backed by actions instead of empty words like Firefox.
you know that this “I don’t care that this person holds bigoted beliefs and thinks that some people shouldn’t have rights, they make the good computer program so who cares” attitude is why so many people think that tech guys are reactionary, right?
you know, it’s really funny that every time someone goes “I don’t care about <XYZ>'s open political opinions, only that they keep doing/making the thing I want” they invariably end up being some kind of right-winger
You are being sold access to their AI model, not just content.
OpenAI is doing the same thing, and until the court bans that, it’s legally ok, if you are asking morally, then that differs from person to person, and for companies any competitve edge is worth it.
I personally stopped caring as its going to happen anyway, the only way to stop it is the courts to get involved, as any search engine won’t be competitve without AI assists.
And even that isn’t clear, we don’t know if AI learning is fair use or not, they are many arguments on both side, with big names like the EFF siding with the fair use.
I guess I am asking morally. I expect this sort of thing from Bing and Google but it surprised me to see a company that is privacy focused basically trampling over someone elses IP to the point they feel they can offer rights to someone elses content and make money from it.
Obviously, this was before I learned what sort of person Eich is. Now I’m not surprised. I guess we all have to decide if something goes against our own principles enough to use/not use something.
Privacy invasive or not, it’s not right what they’re doing and, in my opinion, speaks to their ethics as a company. That in turn leads me to mistrust choices they might make in the future, including regarding privacy.
I guess the crypto stuff along with the ads just made me not at all shocked by this. Not that I think it’s a bad browser, since I’ve had people I tried to explain addons too who found it too confusing so needed an out the box built in solution. But, Firefox continues to be my go to for years and years.
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Yet another reason to not use Brave
I’d like to shout out Mull (Firefox based) and Mulch (Chrome based) web browsers. They are basically more secure and private versions of those app and they maintained by the devs of DivestOS which is the privacy Android OS that is recommended for devices that aren’t Pixels.
Yep, I use Mull on my mobile. Supports various privacy related add-ons too.
tsk tsk tsk. When will people learn to just use Firefox or Librewolf? Do you want a web browser, or an AI training crypto wallet?
I read ya.
I was always skeptical about Brave with their side projects of crypto etc. Its funny because privacytools.io recommends them till this day.
I have been using Librewolf for some time now and I am happy with it.
privacytools.io is no longer the recommended one since the mod/domain owner split a long while ago, it now heavily endorses ads (such as nordvpn) you instead should use
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/tools/
Brave still is a great browser just disable a few settings as recommended in the guide
If the whole selling point of a browser is security/privacy you shouldn’t have to check any boxes to make it work as advertised. It’s not a great browser or worthy of trust.
They also offer other things like a search engine which is not opensource, which is understandable for a business perspective.
But I don’t know. I just don’t have a good feeling about Brave.
Also, I prefer Firefox based browsers on desktop, we need competition in the browser space.
On mobile, the chromium based browsers are just to superior in performance to switch from.
Brave is still Chromium in a new coat of paint and you’re still aiding Google in their domination of web standards.
That is a little unfair tbh, they do quite a lot, such as their privacy shields, including the script blocking one which is basically like NoScript.
They also do some work on anti fingerprinting tech and other things along that vein.
Privacy Guides recommends them also.
Except we’re transparent as to why and Burung Hantu (Marco Wollank) (current owner of PTIO) is not.
Does anyone have another Chromium browser recommendation for Android?
Idk why you want to go with chromium based, firefox got mobile extensions!
Ublock origin on the go
Don’t get me wrong, I like Firefox. I use LibreWolf on desktop. I just can’t justify using it on Android, at least not yet. Guess I’ll go back to using Vanadium.
Why would a human need more?
This might not matter to 60hz users but to the ones used to 120hz, it is jarring to go back to 60hz. Everything feels a split second slower and animations look pretty choppy.
Maybe I am too old, I never see any difference. Also IIRC I read once our eyes/brain/wahtever can’t tell the difference anyway. Guess I was wrong.
What does privacy.resitfingerprinting mean?
It is a setting in the about:config menu on FireFox Beta and Nightly. When enabled, the browser tries to hide certain information about your browser and device from websites.
Fair enough
When I switched from Chrome to Firefox Mobile I didn’t notice any slowdown. I’m surprised you noticed anything because presumably your phone is newer than mine, since I’ve only got a 60Hz display in the first place.
It even has desktop extensions if you use nightly mobile.
Kiwi has extensions. I like kiwi.
Mulch
Is that shady? Arent all other AI companies + many other data gather services doing exactly the same thing. We need to wait for the court cases to conclude if AI datasets can use publicly available information for training.
Just because multiple companies are doing it doesn’t make it less shady. They’re literally selling you ‘rights’ to content that isn’t theirs to sell.
Any particular add-ons for Firefox other than uBlock Origin? I have Tampermonkey and Stylish, but anything else you all recommend?
I’ve seen Librewolf being recommended as well.
https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js/wiki/4.1-Extensions
Thank you. I’ve always used Firefox and when Brave came out I thought I’d give it a go, been using it about 50/50 with Firefox. After reading this I’ll be getting rid of Brave!
It’s a shame. I like what Brave was at the beginning.
Decentraleyes
Redundant. https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js/wiki/4.1-Extensions#-dont-bother
Oh, interesting. Didn’t know that. Thanks for the tip!
Lol isn’t that what all these ai chatbots are doing?
Well fuck, what am I supposed to use? I use bitwarden for passwords, so that shit works everywhere, but I want a mobile browser and a desktop browser that share history. Being able to share tabs between devices is a nice bonus.
Firefox on mobile is hot garbage with infuriating UI bugs. I keep trying to switch to it, and keep switching away after a few days.
I’m sure as shit not going to Chrome.
What issues are you encountering on android Firefox? I’ve used Firefox + ublock for years and I don’t think I have ever encountered an issue that was fixed by using chrome instead.
I’ve never had any big problems with Firefox Android either. I do prefer the Fennec branch though, since it’s on F-Droid and has about:config
I use Firefox on iOS and grapheneOS and it works fine. UI is not as nice as others but it works. Never seen bugs personally ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Isn’t Firefox on iOS essentially a skinned Safari? Unless Apple has changed their stance, I thought all browsers had to use webkit?
I believe it is, yes.
Maybe I’m just cursed then. When full screening a video in landscape there’s a 30% chance the tab will freak out and close. When I scroll sometimes the content doesn’t move, but the menu bars show up as if I was scrolling. Trying to swipe through google images takes several tries before it will stick. These are just a few problems, I’m sure I’ve seen more.
What phone model are you using? Rooted?
Nope, just a regular s20+
Have you tried firefox focus?
May not be as ideal as it requires manual selection but Chromium has a visible share button for QR on the address bar. Or you can use Pushbullet/Join/KDE Connect to share links with your phone.
Librewolf
I liked Brave for a while. But slowly things just started to feel sketchy to me. Their weird insistence on putting their crypto bullshit and wallet services in your face. I just felt like, “I want a browser. Can’t you just be a fucking browser?” At a certain point adding all these other ‘services’ they just end up just a weird-ass money making scheme, like they’re two steps away from using my computer for crypto mining.
I used Brave for quite a while after having some kind of problem with mobile firefox. It got worse and worse the whole time, it defaults to a home screen with ads on it now. I assumed they got bought out or something a while ago. Sad to say but not really shocked that they’re doing some kind of aggressive data collection.
I’ve been telling people for over a year to not use brave after they did that crypto referral injection thing lol
Is this only referring to the Brave search engine?
But it is designed by their company. Their products represent their leadership.
Firefox and DDG for me.
I honestly just started cracking up after seeing DDG mentioned after those initial 2 sentences.
DuckDuckGo does not care about your privacy. Switch to SearX, StartPage, or Kagi.
Didn’t start page get taken over by an advertising company?
System1. Here’s a discussion about it.
I still fluctuate between using Startpage and public SearXNG instances myself, but I have mixed feelings about Startpage.
What instance of searx are you using? Is ononoki a good instance, please don’t tell me to host my own, because I don’t have the budget for it.
I haven’t tried ononoki, but the one I use is https://searx.tiekoetter.com/
Thanks for the link, I’ll try this one.
Thanks for the links. It looks like they engaged, but it is a little waffley, and it doesn’t exactly explain why they purchased them and where they see the ROI. If they are investing capital, they would need a return to make it profitable. It didn’t touch of whether they were after ad space without data (non targetted which isn’t worth a lot less, but may guarantee real estate), or a paid for service where Startpage will generate it’s own profits from services. Without further clarification, it doesn’t sit comfortably.
I have the same concerns. There’s got to be some reason they invested, and no matter how much they claim it doesn’t impact privacy, I don’t trust any ad agency whatsoever. Their whole business is deception and lies.
What makes you say DDG does not care about privacy?
Looks like yes
It’s their Search API.
Whelp that’s it I’m going to Firefox. That’s all I needed to see
Edit: annnd uninstalled. That’s all she wrote
This not exclusive to brave, AI copyright is still not clear. Bing and others like Bard are doing the same.
Yeah and I expect it from those companies. I guess I was naive enough to think Brave would be better than this.
But then I didn’t know about Eich’s homophobia, antivaxx beliefs and basic awfulness either (as mentioned in the link u/Xaeris mentions.)
Honestly I don’t care about his political beliefs, and Brave search is the only competitve independent search engine out there, it’s genuinely a joy to use. Until AI crawling gets banned they aren’t doing anything wrong.
Brave continues to be the best mainstream private browser, backed by actions instead of empty words like Firefox.
you know that this “I don’t care that this person holds bigoted beliefs and thinks that some people shouldn’t have rights, they make the good computer program so who cares” attitude is why so many people think that tech guys are reactionary, right?
Well I am already used to using software from people who I don’t agree with in politics.
We are using one right now, Lemmy’s devs are AFAIK tankies, and that doesn’t really matter.
Also not all people share your political opinions.
how are you going to call “this group shouldn’t have the rights that everyone else has” something as quaint as a “political opinion”
They are not the same rights.
you know, it’s really funny that every time someone goes “I don’t care about <XYZ>'s open political opinions, only that they keep doing/making the thing I want” they invariably end up being some kind of right-winger
You don’t think there’s anything wrong with selling you the ‘rights’ to other people’s content?
You are being sold access to their AI model, not just content. OpenAI is doing the same thing, and until the court bans that, it’s legally ok, if you are asking morally, then that differs from person to person, and for companies any competitve edge is worth it.
I personally stopped caring as its going to happen anyway, the only way to stop it is the courts to get involved, as any search engine won’t be competitve without AI assists.
And even that isn’t clear, we don’t know if AI learning is fair use or not, they are many arguments on both side, with big names like the EFF siding with the fair use.
I guess I am asking morally. I expect this sort of thing from Bing and Google but it surprised me to see a company that is privacy focused basically trampling over someone elses IP to the point they feel they can offer rights to someone elses content and make money from it.
Obviously, this was before I learned what sort of person Eich is. Now I’m not surprised. I guess we all have to decide if something goes against our own principles enough to use/not use something.
It’s nothing privacy invasive. It’s a way to improve their search engine, these hit pieces against brave always get over amplified for no reason.
Privacy invasive or not, it’s not right what they’re doing and, in my opinion, speaks to their ethics as a company. That in turn leads me to mistrust choices they might make in the future, including regarding privacy.
You linked to the Alexandrite app, not lemmy itself.
Whoops - sorry, fixed it now.
Better :) Use “copy URL” not “copy fediverse URL” next time though and it will keep the person in their same instance and they won’t have to login.
Dunno if you edited it, but now it links to the sidebar rules.
I guess the crypto stuff along with the ads just made me not at all shocked by this. Not that I think it’s a bad browser, since I’ve had people I tried to explain addons too who found it too confusing so needed an out the box built in solution. But, Firefox continues to be my go to for years and years.
the shady world of brave