still hella confused as to why self-proclaimed privacy advocates—even teams like @privacyguides—are pushing @element so hard despite the data collection & sharing practices, the loosey-goosey metadata usage, and the fact that they host on AWS.
@sp6 oh i’m not suggesting Signal, though i trust it and use a FOSS client version of it. i agree with you there and would never pitch Discord either, but Element seems much more open to data leakage (bc of the bridges feature) than any other platform and lacks true decentralization (since everyone just uses the main homeserver) and ephemeral messaging, which makes it a non-starter for me.
i think Briar, Cwtch, Session, Simplex, and Tox are where we should be looking, no? or even @syphon over Element if Matrix is what we’re set on using (based on privacy policy).
-SimpleX doesn’t have a desktop GUI has issues with big groups (see comment below)
-Session has a 100-person group chat limit
-Syphon’s own github states they are “still in alpha and we do not recommend using it where proven and independently verified security is required.” Plus, they haven’t had a release in over a year, so I’m not sure it’s still maintained.
Element (or most Matrix clients) don’t have any of those issues. Like I said, it’s not perfect, but I see why it’s recommended. All decent alternatives have significant downsides
“Every message and file gets sent separately to every member in the group”
That seems fine for small groups, but for the typical Element crowd of large groups, I don’t think that would go over well. If you send a 10MB file in a 2000-person chat, you’d be uploading 20GB of data…
I looked at SimpleX a little while ago… and it was looking fine… until I read that they list ‘groups’ in some kind of directory… like chat rooms I imagine. Deal breaker for me.
@whale
That’s what I read after installing the app (on a trash device).
Not that I’m using it for anything nefarious, but if you’re going to claim 100% privacy, I think offering ‘discovery’ services for popular groups goes very much against that.
In all fairness, I removed it shortly after discovering that… so maybe other users who have stuck around can clarify… I dont mind admitting I read that incorrectly.
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@sp6 oh i’m not suggesting Signal, though i trust it and use a FOSS client version of it. i agree with you there and would never pitch Discord either, but Element seems much more open to data leakage (bc of the bridges feature) than any other platform and lacks true decentralization (since everyone just uses the main homeserver) and ephemeral messaging, which makes it a non-starter for me.
i think Briar, Cwtch, Session, Simplex, and Tox are where we should be looking, no? or even @syphon over Element if Matrix is what we’re set on using (based on privacy policy).
Everyone doesn’t use the main HS sure it is alot of people but alot also don’t use it
Bridges only work in rooms that aren’t encrypted, I think.
Some bridges support encryption and even if they don’t there’s a tool to make it so they do pantalaimon
Just a quick glance at all of those:
-Briar, Tox, and Cwtch don’t have iOS clients
-SimpleX
doesn’t have a desktop GUIhas issues with big groups (see comment below)-Session has a 100-person group chat limit
-Syphon’s own github states they are “still in alpha and we do not recommend using it where proven and independently verified security is required.” Plus, they haven’t had a release in over a year, so I’m not sure it’s still maintained.
Element (or most Matrix clients) don’t have any of those issues. Like I said, it’s not perfect, but I see why it’s recommended. All decent alternatives have significant downsides
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Oh nice! Although, one issue from their website:
“Every message and file gets sent separately to every member in the group”
That seems fine for small groups, but for the typical Element crowd of large groups, I don’t think that would go over well. If you send a 10MB file in a 2000-person chat, you’d be uploading 20GB of data…
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Revolt is certainly better than Discord’s privacy, but since it doesn’t yet have E2EE, it doesn’t seem like very privacy-focused software
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@whale @sp6
I looked at SimpleX a little while ago… and it was looking fine… until I read that they list ‘groups’ in some kind of directory… like chat rooms I imagine. Deal breaker for me.
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@whale
That’s what I read after installing the app (on a trash device).
Not that I’m using it for anything nefarious, but if you’re going to claim 100% privacy, I think offering ‘discovery’ services for popular groups goes very much against that.
In all fairness, I removed it shortly after discovering that… so maybe other users who have stuck around can clarify… I dont mind admitting I read that incorrectly.
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