The onion router was a clue in itself as to how you connect to the Internet, especially when you need to hide. Add more than a normal vpn into the mix, proxies, ssh tunnels, dns tunnels, net cat, and maybe i2p.
Once done, you could even fire off an ion cannon in a particular orbit if you fancy.
Just bear in mind that some vpn companies are owned by companies who also own other companies that own large networks, so they don’t necessarily need the vpn to log traffic to get your meta data.
Not exactly a TLDR, but something I appreciate the video for pointing out:
If you already use a VPN regularly and your threat model includes your ISP, you might as well keep it turned on while using Tor.
This prevents the chance your ISP catches you using Tor instead of a VPN (either in the moment or later down the line), and it also keeps other apps besides the Tor-ified ones from leaking stuff.
The video makes a reasonable argument that if you can’t trust your ISP not to log, adding a VPN that has less incentive to log you makes sense and in worst case is the same as your ISP logging you so you lose nothing by trying it
Also, one should consider using Bridges (obfs4), so that your local ISP may not know you’re on Tor. Tails suggests that too. Using a VPS is not necessary a best option for that, though it might be a good option under some situation.
The video covers that as well, if your bridge becomes discovered later, log traffic can be used to identify your tour usage in the past. And if that’s not acceptable in your threat model, then a VPN still makes sense
Agreed. It’s an option worth considering (even EFF said so)—in fact a bridge itself could be run by something like Team Cymru (Augury), removed in TB v11.5.4.
On the other hand, a VPN could collaborate with “them” so you’ll have to trust them… adding yet another unknown.
There are many ways to de-anonymoze Tor users indeed. Like Keystroke fingerprinting or Deep Packet Inspection… Usually a local ISP is not a big problem but it depends. The fact remains that even in a country with heavy Internet censorship, currently a nation-state can’t block Tor (via Bridge or Snowflake).
The issue of people in oppressive countries, where internet traffic is logged, is that using Tor won’t be blocked, but will mark somebody as a person of interest.
So there’s a lot of people on this planet who are connected to the internet and have a legal requirement to have their traffic logged. Those people absolutely should be using a VPN, the VPN cannot possibly be worse than their ISP
I know what Tor is and how to use it, thanks. I was just wondering what the video had to say about Tor + VPNs that hasn’t been said a million times. But I’m not watching video content.
It also includes links to useful resources and noteworthy articles referenced in the video, like the case regarding the deanonymized Tor user and the Harvard network admins. You can also toggle dark mode on the forum website, which is useful for those using anti-fingerprinting browsers such as Tor Browser or Mullvad Browser.
thanks, there were some bits there that I was not aware of. This is why the written form is superior to videos, I can quickly scan through the paragraphs searching for the information I want.
Is it? Its a pretty common forum comment, saying that they have no interest or capability to watch or listen to a video, and would rather the info was written down so they could read it.
This is a normal request from digg, from reddit, here on lemmy, all over niche hobby forums…
Text based website users usually want text based content. Not really weird.
It’s machine generated off the video transcript, so it’s hit and miss but it should give you enough information to determine if you want to watch the video
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What are you guys actually using Tor for, anyway?
For shits and giggles, mostly
thats besides the point
Not for watching YouTube vids that should’ve been a fuckin article anyway
The onion router was a clue in itself as to how you connect to the Internet, especially when you need to hide. Add more than a normal vpn into the mix, proxies, ssh tunnels, dns tunnels, net cat, and maybe i2p. Once done, you could even fire off an ion cannon in a particular orbit if you fancy.
Just bear in mind that some vpn companies are owned by companies who also own other companies that own large networks, so they don’t necessarily need the vpn to log traffic to get your meta data.
I never leave my VPN, so that’s the easier way anyway.
Not exactly a TLDR, but something I appreciate the video for pointing out:
If you already use a VPN regularly and your threat model includes your ISP, you might as well keep it turned on while using Tor.
This prevents the chance your ISP catches you using Tor instead of a VPN (either in the moment or later down the line), and it also keeps other apps besides the Tor-ified ones from leaking stuff.
While doing this is generally not recommended, EFF does indeed suggest this option in some context: https://ssd.eff.org/module/choosing-vpn-thats-right-you#things-to-consider-what-vpns-don-t-do
I think there’s a huge difference between we cannot make a recommendation and you shouldn’t do this.
The tor FAQ says we cannot endorse this in all scenarios… “generally speaking”
https://support.torproject.org/faq/faq-5/
The video makes a reasonable argument that if you can’t trust your ISP not to log, adding a VPN that has less incentive to log you makes sense and in worst case is the same as your ISP logging you so you lose nothing by trying it
Also, one should consider using Bridges (obfs4), so that your local ISP may not know you’re on Tor. Tails suggests that too. Using a VPS is not necessary a best option for that, though it might be a good option under some situation.
The video covers that as well, if your bridge becomes discovered later, log traffic can be used to identify your tour usage in the past. And if that’s not acceptable in your threat model, then a VPN still makes sense
Agreed. It’s an option worth considering (even EFF said so)—in fact a bridge itself could be run by something like Team Cymru (Augury), removed in TB v11.5.4. On the other hand, a VPN could collaborate with “them” so you’ll have to trust them… adding yet another unknown.
There are many ways to de-anonymoze Tor users indeed. Like Keystroke fingerprinting or Deep Packet Inspection… Usually a local ISP is not a big problem but it depends. The fact remains that even in a country with heavy Internet censorship, currently a nation-state can’t block Tor (via Bridge or Snowflake).
The issue of people in oppressive countries, where internet traffic is logged, is that using Tor won’t be blocked, but will mark somebody as a person of interest.
So there’s a lot of people on this planet who are connected to the internet and have a legal requirement to have their traffic logged. Those people absolutely should be using a VPN, the VPN cannot possibly be worse than their ISP
I believe this is why privacy groups mostly recommend using tor without vpns More users, more traffic, less being a single target in a field
Write an article.
They did
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/tor/
They did
I know what Tor is and how to use it, thanks. I was just wondering what the video had to say about Tor + VPNs that hasn’t been said a million times. But I’m not watching video content.
To add on to the video transcript that @jet@hackertalks.com posted, here is Jonah’s post from the Privacy Guides forum that more or less summarizes the video: https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/clarify-tors-weaknesses-with-respect-to-observability/3676/14
It also includes links to useful resources and noteworthy articles referenced in the video, like the case regarding the deanonymized Tor user and the Harvard network admins. You can also toggle dark mode on the forum website, which is useful for those using anti-fingerprinting browsers such as Tor Browser or Mullvad Browser.
thanks, there were some bits there that I was not aware of. This is why the written form is superior to videos, I can quickly scan through the paragraphs searching for the information I want.
But written is less easily monetizable and requires more attention.
It’s kind of weird to comment on a video saying you’re not going to watch the video but hey fair enough.
Just for you here is the video transcript
https://pastebin.com/ijpuwQZ7
Apologies for the link, it was too large to fit in a post
Hey thanks for the text link but I can’t read all that! Is there an audio link to this transcript being read by the stolen AI likeness of Stephen Fry?
I don’t have the attention span. Could someone link a TikTok?
This is a lemmy post, with a link to a video. The comment is not on any video.
You’re correct. Let me amend my previous post.
It’s weird to reply to a Lemmy post about a video, saying you’re not going to watch the video.
Is it? Its a pretty common forum comment, saying that they have no interest or capability to watch or listen to a video, and would rather the info was written down so they could read it.
This is a normal request from digg, from reddit, here on lemmy, all over niche hobby forums…
Text based website users usually want text based content. Not really weird.
Our experiences differ
It’s a good video, filled with nuance, and good discussion. Definitely worth watching
Agreed - it’s 25 minutes without filler or repetition. Good stuff.
Canonical link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo22D-dUeCA
Tldr via notegpt io
This tldr doesn’t explain anything.
It’s machine generated off the video transcript, so it’s hit and miss but it should give you enough information to determine if you want to watch the video
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=vo22D-dUeCA
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Did you watch the video?
No, post an article, then put the video on the videos community
You could read our Tor overview or @jonah@lemmy.one’s post on our forum (which you should totally join)