The government already lost a case against Threema when they tried to force them to spy on their users. This is a Verordnung which is not a law but has to adhere to existing laws. So it might be challenged once more.
If this goes trough though than it has always been legal and it is just the executive making it an actual thing now.
The article seems to say that it’s not a bill that goes through Parliament, more that it’s akin to secondary legislation, which can’t be subject to a petition? Meaning that the Swiss people would need to petition for a constitutional amendment rather than an optional referendum, which makes this slightly more complicated (and requires a lot more effort)
Just in the last few months. Their position has been always crystal clear on this issue. Please stop spreading misinformation for a personal grudge.
Even one person who doesn’t switch from Gmail or Outlook to Proton (the closest privacy a friendly replacement) because of your bs is an unnecessary damage.
Years of great track record, consistent position over basically a decade, 7 years of 5-6 digits donations to nonprofits aligned with those objectives: “whitewashing PR”.
1 tweet about a different topic: “here is their real position on privacy.”
That’s childish, petulant nonsense, especially since that would be illegal under Swiss law, even if this law is amended. Not to mention, it isn’t Andy Yen who gets to decide that anyway. It’s the board of directors, of which Tim motherfucking Berners-Lee is a member. You know, father of the World Wide Web.
He’s not a nazi sympathizer, stop being ridiculous. And he has never once said he would give your data to the US government, Trump admin or not. You’re just straight up lying.
You and everyone like you are overly dramatic, terminally online chronic posters, making mountains out of molehills because you thrive on controversy and need something new each week to be outraged about.
10 years ago, Republicans were the party of big business and Dems stood for the little guys, but today the tables have completely turned
This is protonmails head supporting a Nazi.
Until corporate Dems are thrown out, the reality is that Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses.
This is him saying the nazis are on his side.
I don’t know what more needs to happen for people like you to accept he supports nazis.
Once you are a known Nazi supporter you cannot be trusted for anything because your brain is broken. He doesn’t need to say anything for it to be a threat.
Do you seriosuly not see how your claim is a nonsequitur?
Like, how can someone in good faith quote a sentence that talks about antitrust and who supports big tech or “small tech” and conclude that “Nazis are on his side”, so he must be a Nazi.
I don’t know what more needs to happen for people like you to accept he supports nazis.
For once, he needs to support a Nazi and their Nazi ideas.
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve heard all week, congratulations. You’re insinuating that all Republicans are nazis, for one. It leads me to wonder if you were dropped on you head a little too much as a child. I could go on and point out further problems with your post, but if you’re calling everyone who disagrees with you a nazi, I honestly doubt you’re the sort of person to be willing or able to think critically about what you read, so why bother.
I’m sure there are a few republicans who have job security and haven’t turned Nazi. Romney for one. Shockingly, maybe even Mike pence. Even more shockingly, the cheneys (yes war criminals, no nazis). But the republican party is the party of fascism. Denying it and calling me a child doesn’t make it less true.
That’s a straw man. I didn’t say the party wasn’t full of fascists, I said not all of them are nazis. Just stop already, you’re embarrassing yourself if you have to invent things I said because you don’t have a good response to what I did say.
I self host most of my digital life but I will never host my own email or PW manager for the simple reason that if I screw up either than I could lock myself out of my ENTIRE digital life.
Also, since email is only as private/secure as the weakest user in the conversation, it seems to me like I would get a very minimal privacy gain from doing so, not worth the risk for normal everyday usage IMHO.
If I really need to communicate securely with someone there’s better options out there than email anyways.
@this Email is especially tricky because most large email providers will flag residential mail servers, and hosting on a provider is a separate issue of security and control
Can we just be realistic and understand that most people can’t/won’t do this. Most people do not have the time/technical knowhow to host everything themselves.
Edit: came back to this and wanted to clarify. It would be great if people could self host literally everything but I don’t get any crucial information through emails or really ever besides in person. I am more than willing to pay a reasonable amount to support privacy features but I’m not personally willing to spend 10x that amount in time to do something that will probably not work because I am not an IT person. I do not have to time to learn how to self host 26 different pieces of software that I have been told I need to self host nor do I have the spare computer parts lying around to build a machine to host them. I have looked at self hosting a matrix client because that is the one type of app that I get anything I want to keep private sent to me but my family is already using signal so I’m unconvinced that switching is worth while.
I should have made paragraphs but I forgot to my bad.
I totally agree with your approach to choices. I don’t have the time nor insight into politics to make educated decisions so I just flip a coin every fourth year and is done with it. Yet people berate me for my ignorance?!
Swiss privacy and neutrality died the day they refused asylum to Snowden. The EU is just US’s little pet, so is Switzerland even though they aren’t part of the EU…
I do agree that some EU members try to get out of the hands of the US based monopoly/dictatorship, but just proposing to implement such a law is insane and proves how well the US roots are implemented in the EU.
While this is a small win, they will just circumvent and find some kind of loophole. It’s not that they don’t want to implement such a law, it’s only because they know they won’t be the only one abusing that system, because it’s to simplistic and anyone with good connections and money can just get the keys for the backdoor.
IMO it’s just a question of time before they propose a more stupid and insane law only the GOV can use. This is not a real win, more a wait and see situation…
On a final note, It’s great the EU trying to get away from US based software (eg Linux, Office…) 😊
That’s what raising a family is about. No matter what you do the world will eventually burn you out, so it’s good to have people to take over whatever it is you’ve built.
That’s what they count on. They only have to get it through once. We have to fight and win every time, as the UK recently found out. Vigilance has to be key, no matter how hard they make it.
But I concede it’s tiring as all hell.
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The government already lost a case against Threema when they tried to force them to spy on their users. This is a Verordnung which is not a law but has to adhere to existing laws. So it might be challenged once more.
If this goes trough though than it has always been legal and it is just the executive making it an actual thing now.
That will immediately get a referendum and get smashed down.
Nothing to worry about.
The article seems to say that it’s not a bill that goes through Parliament, more that it’s akin to secondary legislation, which can’t be subject to a petition? Meaning that the Swiss people would need to petition for a constitutional amendment rather than an optional referendum, which makes this slightly more complicated (and requires a lot more effort)
Meaning, it’s not about criminals but for spying on common people.
Everyone is a criminal
That even includes lemmy with 50k MAU.
andy yen would probably happily hand over all your data to the us government anyway
Just in the last few months. Their position has been always crystal clear on this issue. Please stop spreading misinformation for a personal grudge. Even one person who doesn’t switch from Gmail or Outlook to Proton (the closest privacy a friendly replacement) because of your bs is an unnecessary damage.
im aware of their whitewashing pr.
im also aware they literally posted their right wing nonsense on their official bsky before deleting
Sorry, no.
That’s childish, petulant nonsense, especially since that would be illegal under Swiss law, even if this law is amended. Not to mention, it isn’t Andy Yen who gets to decide that anyway. It’s the board of directors, of which Tim motherfucking Berners-Lee is a member. You know, father of the World Wide Web.
They said would, not will. And you thinking a known Nazi sympathizer wouldn’t sell you out for a headpat is the childish part.
He’s not a nazi sympathizer, stop being ridiculous. And he has never once said he would give your data to the US government, Trump admin or not. You’re just straight up lying.
You and everyone like you are overly dramatic, terminally online chronic posters, making mountains out of molehills because you thrive on controversy and need something new each week to be outraged about.
This is protonmails head supporting a Nazi.
This is him saying the nazis are on his side.
I don’t know what more needs to happen for people like you to accept he supports nazis.
Once you are a known Nazi supporter you cannot be trusted for anything because your brain is broken. He doesn’t need to say anything for it to be a threat.
Do you seriosuly not see how your claim is a nonsequitur? Like, how can someone in good faith quote a sentence that talks about antitrust and who supports big tech or “small tech” and conclude that “Nazis are on his side”, so he must be a Nazi.
For once, he needs to support a Nazi and their Nazi ideas.
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve heard all week, congratulations. You’re insinuating that all Republicans are nazis, for one. It leads me to wonder if you were dropped on you head a little too much as a child. I could go on and point out further problems with your post, but if you’re calling everyone who disagrees with you a nazi, I honestly doubt you’re the sort of person to be willing or able to think critically about what you read, so why bother.
I’m sure there are a few republicans who have job security and haven’t turned Nazi. Romney for one. Shockingly, maybe even Mike pence. Even more shockingly, the cheneys (yes war criminals, no nazis). But the republican party is the party of fascism. Denying it and calling me a child doesn’t make it less true.
That’s a straw man. I didn’t say the party wasn’t full of fascists, I said not all of them are nazis. Just stop already, you’re embarrassing yourself if you have to invent things I said because you don’t have a good response to what I did say.
Welcome to lemmy. These nutjobs are everywhere.
Go back to your cybertruck
Awesome. So much for “Swiss privacy” huh? Where the hell do I move from Proton? 😮💨
There was never swiss privacy - “crypto ag” and Fichenaffäre for the starters
I switched to tutanota for email and mullvad for VPN as soon as they came out as pro-trump.
Tutonota is German, which is part of the already full on surveilance state.
A fair point, but it’s better than proton or especially gmail and other traditional email providers. Do you have a better alternative to suggest?
I’ll review again. Last time I looked was 3 to 4 years ago.
I’m sticking with Proton for now. If Switzerland ends up being no different than the 5 eyes, I’ll be more intent on finding a replacement.
Self host your own?
I self host most of my digital life but I will never host my own email or PW manager for the simple reason that if I screw up either than I could lock myself out of my ENTIRE digital life.
Also, since email is only as private/secure as the weakest user in the conversation, it seems to me like I would get a very minimal privacy gain from doing so, not worth the risk for normal everyday usage IMHO.
If I really need to communicate securely with someone there’s better options out there than email anyways.
@this Email is especially tricky because most large email providers will flag residential mail servers, and hosting on a provider is a separate issue of security and control
Can we just be realistic and understand that most people can’t/won’t do this. Most people do not have the time/technical knowhow to host everything themselves.
Edit: came back to this and wanted to clarify. It would be great if people could self host literally everything but I don’t get any crucial information through emails or really ever besides in person. I am more than willing to pay a reasonable amount to support privacy features but I’m not personally willing to spend 10x that amount in time to do something that will probably not work because I am not an IT person. I do not have to time to learn how to self host 26 different pieces of software that I have been told I need to self host nor do I have the spare computer parts lying around to build a machine to host them. I have looked at self hosting a matrix client because that is the one type of app that I get anything I want to keep private sent to me but my family is already using signal so I’m unconvinced that switching is worth while.
I should have made paragraphs but I forgot to my bad.
I totally agree with your approach to choices. I don’t have the time nor insight into politics to make educated decisions so I just flip a coin every fourth year and is done with it. Yet people berate me for my ignorance?!
Swiss privacy and neutrality died the day they refused asylum to Snowden. The EU is just US’s little pet, so is Switzerland even though they aren’t part of the EU…
on the same page ☞ France rejects controversial encryption backdoor provision
I do agree that some EU members try to get out of the hands of the US based monopoly/dictatorship, but just proposing to implement such a law is insane and proves how well the US roots are implemented in the EU.
While this is a small win, they will just circumvent and find some kind of loophole. It’s not that they don’t want to implement such a law, it’s only because they know they won’t be the only one abusing that system, because it’s to simplistic and anyone with good connections and money can just get the keys for the backdoor.
IMO it’s just a question of time before they propose a more stupid and insane law only the GOV can use. This is not a real win, more a wait and see situation…
On a final note, It’s great the EU trying to get away from US based software (eg Linux, Office…) 😊
How do they plan to “ban” encryption? What are they going to do if I get a VPN and download the Signal APK?
Capturing DNS and show of force is normally how they do it. Obviously won’t stop those with the technical know how, but will stop 99% of people.
To be fair, I’m pretty sure my country (Jordan) has the wireguard protocol banned ☹️
I see. You need either IPSEC/OVPN or need to encapsulate wireguard in an SSL tunnel. It’s a little involved but possible to do
Ugh. This fight is never ending. I feel like after a while you just get totally burned out of fighting and have to pass it on to others.
This has been going on since the early 1990s. Just keep up the fight.
That’s what raising a family is about. No matter what you do the world will eventually burn you out, so it’s good to have people to take over whatever it is you’ve built.
That’s what they count on. They only have to get it through once. We have to fight and win every time, as the UK recently found out. Vigilance has to be key, no matter how hard they make it. But I concede it’s tiring as all hell.