It does not matter if they are using AWS, the data is already encrypted by the user’s device by the time it arrives their servers. They are already a non profit organization, they can’t afford dedicated bare metal servers in their workplace.
Signal knows your entire connection graph. Who you talk to, at what time and how much. Storing all of the phone numbers/identities on their server.
I use SimpleX Chat where you have no identity that can be recorded. It is also easy to use, though it’s relatively new and in active production
As everyone other said, Signal is NOT supposed to be an anonymous messaging service, but a private one.
Anyone knows that the moment a service asks for their personal phone number, they can’t be anonymous.
For the average Joe, Signal is the superior choice over WhatsApp, at least.
I think you don’t understand what “privacy” means. Being anonymous is the highest achievable level of privacy. There are levels before that, and Signal is at the bottom of the spectrum (WhatsApp is not even on the spectrum)
=> Signal is doing a bad job if it’s goal is “privacy”
Signal does nothing more than hiding message content, which by your own words is “of course not” privacy. Signal could be a lot more private, but it is not and it doesn’t want to be. I’m done talking to you, I can’t get much clearer than that…
I disagree. There are a variety of ways your data can be leaked. For example, the person you’re talking to can be using a Google stock phone or Microsoft windows which may collect data. If this was a random XMPP name, this would provide more protection than your real phone number. Furthermore, there are academic studies proving the metadata can be gotten. Please see this for more information:
https://simplifiedprivacy.com/signal-messenger-guide-to-avoid-privacy-mistakes/
If this was a random XMPP name, this would provide more protection than your real phone number.
Again, Signal is not supposed to be a anonymous messaging service. It is supposed to be a private one. You’re literally comparing a messaging protocol designed to be anonymous to a non-anonymous one. Sure, it would be great if XMPP was used overall, but unfortunately it isn’t. At least Signal developed a protocol that is starting to be pretty popular and is E2EE. You can use XMPP, but your average privacy user will use Signal over WhatsApp. Your argument literally is just about how XMPP is more anonymous than a protocol not even designed to be anonymous in the first place.
Plus why care how the CIA or whatever knows who you’re talking to when they don’t know what you’re talking about?
That would be a concern if you and/or the one you’re talking to were some criminal or something, but not for the average person.
So if you’re some criminal, if you have even a little bit of common sense, you wouldn’t be using Signal in the first place. There’s other more secure and anonymous means of doing so. Whether it be over some protocol like XMPP, Matrix or SignalX’s protocol or something.
Are you some paranoid person or a criminal? Because the CIA or the FBI wouldn’t give a fuck about why I am talking to person Y 24/7 as long as their phone numbers are not in the suspicious persons list and the messages are encrypted so that even if I were doing some stuff that would anger the government, they wouldn’t ever know it.
It is already a pain in the ass to get someone to join Signal over from other apps like Instagram, FB messenger, WhatsApp etc.
By introducing decentralized systems, you’re causing even more “confusion”. They most likely don’t even understand what decentralization is and just back off because it “sounds” so complicated and scary to them. Plus even if they did switch to XMPP or at least started using it, would their friends switch too? Without someone to message, why keep using the messaging service? They’ll switch back right to their original messaging service they used to use before you encouraged them into switching over to XMPP. And now you even seem like someone they wouldn’t ask for advice from, because you once did give them advice and it was not useful.
If you are also so against phone numbers, you might like that Signal will introduce usernames soon. The ones you give your Signal username to will never ever know your real phone number (as long as you turn phone number privacy on in the settings [coming soon after the usernames]). Not a replacement for real anonymous messaging services, but at least somewhat similar concept.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !privacyguides@lemmy.one
In the digital age, protecting your personal information might seem like an impossible task. We’re here to help.
This is a community for sharing news about privacy, posting information about cool privacy tools and services, and getting advice about your privacy journey.
You can subscribe to this community from any Kbin or Lemmy instance:
Check out our website at privacyguides.org before asking your questions here. We’ve tried answering the common questions and recommendations there!
Want to get involved? The website is open-source on GitHub, and your help would be appreciated!
This community is the “official” Privacy Guides community on Lemmy, which can be verified here. Other “Privacy Guides” communities on other Lemmy servers are not moderated by this team or associated with the website.
Moderation Rules:
We prefer posting about open-source software whenever possible.
No soliciting engagement: Don’t ask for upvotes, follows, etc.
Surveys, Fundraising, and Petitions must be pre-approved by the mod team.
Be civil, no violence, hate speech. Assume people here are posting in good faith.
Don’t repost topics which have already been covered here.
News posts must be related to privacy and security, and your post title must match the article headline exactly. Do not editorialize titles, you can post your opinions in the post body or a comment.
Memes/images/video posts that could be summarized as text explanations should not be posted. Infographics and conference talks from reputable sources are acceptable.
No help vampires: This is not a tech support subreddit, don’t abuse our community’s willingness to help. Questions related to privacy, security or privacy/security related software and their configurations are acceptable.
No misinformation: Extraordinary claims must be matched with evidence.
Do not post about VPNs or cryptocurrencies which are not listed on privacyguides.org. See Rule 2 for info on adding new recommendations to the website.
General guides or software lists are not permitted. Original sources and research about specific topics are allowed as long as they are high quality and factual. We are not providing a platform for poorly-vetted, out-of-date or conflicting recommendations.
It does not matter if they are using AWS, the data is already encrypted by the user’s device by the time it arrives their servers. They are already a non profit organization, they can’t afford dedicated bare metal servers in their workplace.
Signal knows your entire connection graph. Who you talk to, at what time and how much. Storing all of the phone numbers/identities on their server. I use SimpleX Chat where you have no identity that can be recorded. It is also easy to use, though it’s relatively new and in active production
As everyone other said, Signal is NOT supposed to be an anonymous messaging service, but a private one. Anyone knows that the moment a service asks for their personal phone number, they can’t be anonymous. For the average Joe, Signal is the superior choice over WhatsApp, at least.
I think you don’t understand what “privacy” means. Being anonymous is the highest achievable level of privacy. There are levels before that, and Signal is at the bottom of the spectrum (WhatsApp is not even on the spectrum)
=> Signal is doing a bad job if it’s goal is “privacy”
Anonymity isn’t privacy, and privacy isn’t anonymity. I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Do you define privacy as “message content is hidden, everything else is irrelevant”?
Of course not, but it is a known fact that anonymity isn’t privacy.
Who says privacy equals anonymity?? No one here.
Signal does nothing more than hiding message content, which by your own words is “of course not” privacy. Signal could be a lot more private, but it is not and it doesn’t want to be. I’m done talking to you, I can’t get much clearer than that…
Signal could be more private indeed. But:
is obviously a misguided statement.
You. Literally contradicting.
I disagree. There are a variety of ways your data can be leaked. For example, the person you’re talking to can be using a Google stock phone or Microsoft windows which may collect data. If this was a random XMPP name, this would provide more protection than your real phone number. Furthermore, there are academic studies proving the metadata can be gotten. Please see this for more information: https://simplifiedprivacy.com/signal-messenger-guide-to-avoid-privacy-mistakes/
Again, Signal is not supposed to be a anonymous messaging service. It is supposed to be a private one. You’re literally comparing a messaging protocol designed to be anonymous to a non-anonymous one. Sure, it would be great if XMPP was used overall, but unfortunately it isn’t. At least Signal developed a protocol that is starting to be pretty popular and is E2EE. You can use XMPP, but your average privacy user will use Signal over WhatsApp. Your argument literally is just about how XMPP is more anonymous than a protocol not even designed to be anonymous in the first place. Plus why care how the CIA or whatever knows who you’re talking to when they don’t know what you’re talking about? That would be a concern if you and/or the one you’re talking to were some criminal or something, but not for the average person. So if you’re some criminal, if you have even a little bit of common sense, you wouldn’t be using Signal in the first place. There’s other more secure and anonymous means of doing so. Whether it be over some protocol like XMPP, Matrix or SignalX’s protocol or something. Are you some paranoid person or a criminal? Because the CIA or the FBI wouldn’t give a fuck about why I am talking to person Y 24/7 as long as their phone numbers are not in the suspicious persons list and the messages are encrypted so that even if I were doing some stuff that would anger the government, they wouldn’t ever know it.
It is already a pain in the ass to get someone to join Signal over from other apps like Instagram, FB messenger, WhatsApp etc. By introducing decentralized systems, you’re causing even more “confusion”. They most likely don’t even understand what decentralization is and just back off because it “sounds” so complicated and scary to them. Plus even if they did switch to XMPP or at least started using it, would their friends switch too? Without someone to message, why keep using the messaging service? They’ll switch back right to their original messaging service they used to use before you encouraged them into switching over to XMPP. And now you even seem like someone they wouldn’t ask for advice from, because you once did give them advice and it was not useful.
If you are also so against phone numbers, you might like that Signal will introduce usernames soon. The ones you give your Signal username to will never ever know your real phone number (as long as you turn phone number privacy on in the settings [coming soon after the usernames]). Not a replacement for real anonymous messaging services, but at least somewhat similar concept.