Hi 👋
just shared the site with one of my buddies and he told me he doesn’t care much about it because there’s no way you’ll be 100% privacy enforced since you’re using an iPhone and sharing your location, name, birthdate , personal files, photos.
I’ve to say this gets to me but on the other side I’m also respectful of everyone‘s opinion because after all, this is what makes us special
How are you handling these circumstances usually, do you say something?
This sort of “all or nothing” nonsense is a fairly common counterargument. The answer is “do what you can”.
Don’t use an iPhone
If you do use an iPhone, you can absolutely limit the amount and type of information Apple has about you.
Apple is not exactly notorious for actually giving anyone your information. Unlike most tech giants, they’re not an advertising service, so don’t have much motive. They’re not the best but much better than, say, Google.
I would argue that, out of the two smartphone OSes available, iOS is the better choice for most people. They’ve done far more than Google at making sure nobody (even them), can access your data without your permission by putting encryption into a lot of their services.
In contrast, Google wants, and gets, access to everything about your life. And they’re more than willing to share that data with the government, or anyone that will pay them. And while the best option would be deGoogled Android, that’s something that most people aren’t going to be willing to use, even if they’re wising up to the need to take privacy seriously.
Privacy isn’t an all-or-nothing. Usually it’s better for each person to consider if they really need fully secure, or if a iPhone that does far more than the bare minimum at protecting their privacy is enough for them
2 is almost as bad as the all or nothing approach. I argue that while Apple is not trustworthy, they are not incentivized to collect every piece of information about you that they can. Conversely, android is an operating system created by an advertising company specifically to ensure an ongoing corner on their market. Asking the average person to use a DeGoogled OS is akin to telling them to switch to OpenBSD on their desktop.
Completely disagree. You can’t use iPhones with anything but iOS. And you can’t install any apps Apple hasn’t put their fucking rubber stamp and collected taxes on. For that reason, it is not and never will be viable. Not to mention being overpriced and disposable.
Android may be created by an advertising company but they also give you the ability to run whatever OS you want and strip it of Google’s proprietary software completely. These days you can install OS like Graphene by simply plugging in your phone and clicking buttons in your browser.
Just like Ulrich thinking installing graphene being easy is just his experience, that is just your experience. I don’t have a single app that needs google play and that’s one thing i find it easy.
Whatever would need it i just use their website. Sure they try a lot to annoy you into using their useless app but it’s doable and becomes an incentive to find a better service.
You can find your way around, but you’ll spend twice the amount of time doing the same tasks that you could easily do on apps. Also, bye bye bank apps, or any Android games
If you don’t use your phone a lot, understandable, but for most people, nah, not doable
I use my phone a lot lot. It’s a terrible addiction. But yeah, I’m not the usual user and my needs are different.
But I disagree with “spending twice the amount of time”. I’ve never seen that except on evil stuff that just handicaps the website on mobile for no reason other than “I’ll force you to use my app through pain”, when the desktop site is as good or even better than the app. And if it’s one of those companies, to me it’s a red flag. It’s not a service I’m using, it’s a company trying to abuse me as far as they can and I’ll be dumb if I continue on that abusive relationship and not break up.
But ending an abusive relationship is a personal choice. But to me they are inflicting that pain on them selves.
Oh, a good example is reddit. The mobile website experience is painful for no reason other than to force me to use their shitty app to steal more from me.
And what do you know? That was a red flag and that is a company I should have tried my best to avoid for that reason and many others. And now here I am on Lemmy, happier, and not forced a shitty app down my throat.
15% for the first $1M (USD) revenue earned by the developer each year
30% for earnings in excess of $1M (USD) revenue earned by the developer each year
and what % of apps are installed outside of the Google Play Store…?
Why does that matter? The point is you can do it. Personally 100% of mine are installed that way using Aurora, Obtainium, Droidify or Accrescent. Android allows you that freedom and always has, Apple fights vigilantly to ensure you never have that choice.
They push warning messages all over the OS to deter users from doing that…
They are not “all over the OS”. There is a pop-up message that asks you if you want to allow the app to be used as an installer. That’s it.
I mean the entire thing is “Google software” so I’m not sure what you mean. It strips it of everything that calls Google’s servers. It has optional sandboxed Google Play services.
You don’t need the Google Play Store, you can install all of those apps with Aurora Store.
I think the point is you’re exaggerating how easy it is for the average person to install and use something like Graphene - people are arguing it’s less that Google allows it and more that white hats have forced it and I don’t think that’s an unfair statement. Like - I’m techy, own a phone running Graphene, and will have to look into the Aurora store - hadn’t heard of it before this!
Apple seems to be pretty privacy forward at the moment and it’s true that they sell hardware more so than software, and WAY moreso than user data. For people who can’t figure out something like Graphene, Apple is certainly a better choice than Googled Android. And I think that’s valuable to be able to tell people in this day and age even if Graphene would be best overall
As a GrapheneOS user, and someone who hates apple and would rather not have a phone than bend to apple, and while i agree with most of what you said, i would not expect the majority of the users to be able to install graphene. I don’t personally know anyone i would expect to be able to do by themselves. It’s easy for you. It wasn’t super easy for me, it would be difficult for most people.
Android may be created by an advertising company but they also give you the ability to run whatever OS you want and strip it of Google’s proprietary software completely. These days you can install OS like Graphene by simply plugging in your phone and clicking buttons in your browser.
That’s like saying since computers come with Windows pre-installed, Microsoft gave you the ability to install Linux. Computers are agnostic to what runs on them, they’re inherently neutral unless made on the deeper level to prohibit side loading. Like a lot of Androids and all iPhones do.
They don’t give you the ability but they also don’t actively impede you from installing something else. If computers were agnostic then you could install whatever you wanted on an iPhone but you can’t because Apple locks them down.
Android may be created by an advertising company but they also give you the ability to run whatever OS you want and strip it of Google’s proprietary software completely. These days you can install OS like Graphene by simply plugging in your phone and clicking buttons in your browser.
This is patently untrue, and a total misrepresentation of the facts. You can install other OSes on a rather small list of Android phones. Furthermore, while the user might just be clicking a few buttons, behind the scenes those buttons put into play a rather complex series of actions that break the protections put into place by Google and phone manufacturers to stop you from doing exactly that.
Saying that Google gives you the ability to install other OSes is like saying Sony gives you the ability to install other OSes on the Playstation. It isn’t true, Google never gave you that ability, the technical wizardry of white hat hackers did.
This is patently untrue, and a total misrepresentation of the facts.
LOL what? No it isn’t.
You can install other OSes on a rather small list of Android phones.
How many iPhones can you install another OS on? That’s nothing to do with Android anyway, you’d have to talk to the OEMs and carriers about that, Google lets you do it on their phones.
while the user might just be clicking a few buttons, behind the scenes those buttons put into play a rather complex series of actions that break the protections put into place by Google and phone manufacturers to stop you from doing exactly that.
No, it doesn’t. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Saying that Google gives you the ability to install other OSes is like saying Sony gives you the ability to install other OSes on the Playstation.
No, it’s not. There’s a toggle that Google put in the stock settings specifically for that purpose.
No, it doesn’t. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Kid, you’ve no fucking idea what I know, so stop with this adolescent shit. Your whole post is nothing more than you saying “nuh uh” to everything I wrote. If you’re going to argue about stuff, at least take the time to actually be fucking informed about what you’re talking about. I’ve been jailbreaking iPhones and taking apart Android since before you were old enough to even know what XDA is.
Well, take a look at LineageOS and the associated microg edition. They work on dozens of devices. I’ve been flashing ROM’s since the first Android phone and I’m still using my Pixel 2XL, degoogled. I still have my Moto X 2013 {with custim, now unusable ROM} because it is like a river rock. It feels great to hold.
Google phones have always been unlockable - primarily for the benefit of developers.
Calyx also offers a degoogled Android, focused on privacy like Graphene.
If one wants a phone and own it, Google is the only sure way right now.
Your whole post is nothing more than you saying “nuh uh” to everything I wrote
…and what do you think you wrote? I didn’t see any evidence? Get a Pixel (or other similarly unlockable device), go into the settings and look for the “OEM unlocking” toggle. There’s your evidence. Maybe you can learn something new today.
I’ve been jailbreaking iPhones and taking apart Android since before you were old enough to even know what XDA is.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !privacyguides@lemmy.one
In the digital age, protecting your personal information might seem like an impossible task. We’re here to help.
This is a community for sharing news about privacy, posting information about cool privacy tools and services, and getting advice about your privacy journey.
You can subscribe to this community from any Kbin or Lemmy instance:
Check out our website at privacyguides.org before asking your questions here. We’ve tried answering the common questions and recommendations there!
Want to get involved? The website is open-source on GitHub, and your help would be appreciated!
This community is the “official” Privacy Guides community on Lemmy, which can be verified here. Other “Privacy Guides” communities on other Lemmy servers are not moderated by this team or associated with the website.
Moderation Rules:
We prefer posting about open-source software whenever possible.
No soliciting engagement: Don’t ask for upvotes, follows, etc.
Surveys, Fundraising, and Petitions must be pre-approved by the mod team.
Be civil, no violence, hate speech. Assume people here are posting in good faith.
Don’t repost topics which have already been covered here.
News posts must be related to privacy and security, and your post title must match the article headline exactly. Do not editorialize titles, you can post your opinions in the post body or a comment.
Memes/images/video posts that could be summarized as text explanations should not be posted. Infographics and conference talks from reputable sources are acceptable.
No help vampires: This is not a tech support subreddit, don’t abuse our community’s willingness to help. Questions related to privacy, security or privacy/security related software and their configurations are acceptable.
No misinformation: Extraordinary claims must be matched with evidence.
Do not post about VPNs or cryptocurrencies which are not listed on privacyguides.org. See Rule 2 for info on adding new recommendations to the website.
General guides or software lists are not permitted. Original sources and research about specific topics are allowed as long as they are high quality and factual. We are not providing a platform for poorly-vetted, out-of-date or conflicting recommendations.
I would argue that, out of the two smartphone OSes available, iOS is the better choice for most people. They’ve done far more than Google at making sure nobody (even them), can access your data without your permission by putting encryption into a lot of their services.
In contrast, Google wants, and gets, access to everything about your life. And they’re more than willing to share that data with the government, or anyone that will pay them. And while the best option would be deGoogled Android, that’s something that most people aren’t going to be willing to use, even if they’re wising up to the need to take privacy seriously.
Privacy isn’t an all-or-nothing. Usually it’s better for each person to consider if they really need fully secure, or if a iPhone that does far more than the bare minimum at protecting their privacy is enough for them
See my other reply.
2 is almost as bad as the all or nothing approach. I argue that while Apple is not trustworthy, they are not incentivized to collect every piece of information about you that they can. Conversely, android is an operating system created by an advertising company specifically to ensure an ongoing corner on their market. Asking the average person to use a DeGoogled OS is akin to telling them to switch to OpenBSD on their desktop.
Completely disagree. You can’t use iPhones with anything but iOS. And you can’t install any apps Apple hasn’t put their fucking rubber stamp and collected taxes on. For that reason, it is not and never will be viable. Not to mention being overpriced and disposable.
Android may be created by an advertising company but they also give you the ability to run whatever OS you want and strip it of Google’s proprietary software completely. These days you can install OS like Graphene by simply plugging in your phone and clicking buttons in your browser.
90%+ apps require Google play services, which basically allows them to know every app you use, and potentially more.
There’s also a surge in apps implementing integrity checks, which makes you unable to run certain apps entirely with a custom ROM
Google has the exact same policy of getting a large cut of each payment you make…
Just like Ulrich thinking installing graphene being easy is just his experience, that is just your experience. I don’t have a single app that needs google play and that’s one thing i find it easy.
Whatever would need it i just use their website. Sure they try a lot to annoy you into using their useless app but it’s doable and becomes an incentive to find a better service.
You can find your way around, but you’ll spend twice the amount of time doing the same tasks that you could easily do on apps. Also, bye bye bank apps, or any Android games
If you don’t use your phone a lot, understandable, but for most people, nah, not doable
I use my phone a lot lot. It’s a terrible addiction. But yeah, I’m not the usual user and my needs are different.
But I disagree with “spending twice the amount of time”. I’ve never seen that except on evil stuff that just handicaps the website on mobile for no reason other than “I’ll force you to use my app through pain”, when the desktop site is as good or even better than the app. And if it’s one of those companies, to me it’s a red flag. It’s not a service I’m using, it’s a company trying to abuse me as far as they can and I’ll be dumb if I continue on that abusive relationship and not break up.
But ending an abusive relationship is a personal choice. But to me they are inflicting that pain on them selves.
Oh, a good example is reddit. The mobile website experience is painful for no reason other than to force me to use their shitty app to steal more from me.
And what do you know? That was a red flag and that is a company I should have tried my best to avoid for that reason and many others. And now here I am on Lemmy, happier, and not forced a shitty app down my throat.
No they don’t. More like 5%. What % of Apple apps require Apple services?
https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/112622
Apple takes 30%
Google gets 0% of income of apps installed outside of the Google Play Store.
My 5% was referring to Google Play Services dependency.
and what % of apps are installed outside of the Google Play Store…?
They push warning messages all over the OS to deter users from doing that…
Why does that matter? The point is you can do it. Personally 100% of mine are installed that way using Aurora, Obtainium, Droidify or Accrescent. Android allows you that freedom and always has, Apple fights vigilantly to ensure you never have that choice.
They are not “all over the OS”. There is a pop-up message that asks you if you want to allow the app to be used as an installer. That’s it.
Graphene doesn’t completely strip Google software though, it sandboxes it. You still gotta use the play store to install most apps for example.
I mean the entire thing is “Google software” so I’m not sure what you mean. It strips it of everything that calls Google’s servers. It has optional sandboxed Google Play services.
You don’t need the Google Play Store, you can install all of those apps with Aurora Store.
I think the point is you’re exaggerating how easy it is for the average person to install and use something like Graphene - people are arguing it’s less that Google allows it and more that white hats have forced it and I don’t think that’s an unfair statement. Like - I’m techy, own a phone running Graphene, and will have to look into the Aurora store - hadn’t heard of it before this!
Apple seems to be pretty privacy forward at the moment and it’s true that they sell hardware more so than software, and WAY moreso than user data. For people who can’t figure out something like Graphene, Apple is certainly a better choice than Googled Android. And I think that’s valuable to be able to tell people in this day and age even if Graphene would be best overall
I’m not. It really is that easy.
But the fact that it’s easy isn’t the point. The point is that you have that choice. That is not a choice you’re allowed with Apple.
I did tell them that, in the parent comment of this thread.
As a GrapheneOS user, and someone who hates apple and would rather not have a phone than bend to apple, and while i agree with most of what you said, i would not expect the majority of the users to be able to install graphene. I don’t personally know anyone i would expect to be able to do by themselves. It’s easy for you. It wasn’t super easy for me, it would be difficult for most people.
That’s like saying since computers come with Windows pre-installed, Microsoft gave you the ability to install Linux. Computers are agnostic to what runs on them, they’re inherently neutral unless made on the deeper level to prohibit side loading. Like a lot of Androids and all iPhones do.
They don’t give you the ability but they also don’t actively impede you from installing something else. If computers were agnostic then you could install whatever you wanted on an iPhone but you can’t because Apple locks them down.
This is patently untrue, and a total misrepresentation of the facts. You can install other OSes on a rather small list of Android phones. Furthermore, while the user might just be clicking a few buttons, behind the scenes those buttons put into play a rather complex series of actions that break the protections put into place by Google and phone manufacturers to stop you from doing exactly that.
Saying that Google gives you the ability to install other OSes is like saying Sony gives you the ability to install other OSes on the Playstation. It isn’t true, Google never gave you that ability, the technical wizardry of white hat hackers did.
LOL what? No it isn’t.
How many iPhones can you install another OS on? That’s nothing to do with Android anyway, you’d have to talk to the OEMs and carriers about that, Google lets you do it on their phones.
No, it doesn’t. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
No, it’s not. There’s a toggle that Google put in the stock settings specifically for that purpose.
Kid, you’ve no fucking idea what I know, so stop with this adolescent shit. Your whole post is nothing more than you saying “nuh uh” to everything I wrote. If you’re going to argue about stuff, at least take the time to actually be fucking informed about what you’re talking about. I’ve been jailbreaking iPhones and taking apart Android since before you were old enough to even know what XDA is.
Well, take a look at LineageOS and the associated microg edition. They work on dozens of devices. I’ve been flashing ROM’s since the first Android phone and I’m still using my Pixel 2XL, degoogled. I still have my Moto X 2013 {with custim, now unusable ROM} because it is like a river rock. It feels great to hold.
Google phones have always been unlockable - primarily for the benefit of developers.
Calyx also offers a degoogled Android, focused on privacy like Graphene.
If one wants a phone and own it, Google is the only sure way right now.
You heard it right here on Privacy Guides, ladies and gents!
Well, what unlockable options are there? I certainly accept that I might not be keyed into everything. Fairphone is the only one i recall.
Please, don’t just snark. Enlighten me.
I know you know nothing about this.
…and what do you think you wrote? I didn’t see any evidence? Get a Pixel (or other similarly unlockable device), go into the settings and look for the “OEM unlocking” toggle. There’s your evidence. Maybe you can learn something new today.
You’ve no idea how old I am.