I use both Tutanota and Protonmail and love both. Protonmail is based out of Switzerland where Tutanota is based out of Germany. Germany is part of fourteen eyes so I give the win to Proton there. Tutanota has lower prices. Tutanota has apps available in App Image and Flatpak for Linux where Proton is only in the AUR and as a .deb. Tutanota has an Android app on F-Droid where Protonmail you have to navigate their site to find a standalone apk. Both are on the Fediverse but Proton did leave for a while where Tutanota stayed and was more active. Overall both are good choices.
Proton lost me in the testmonth. I wanted to cancel the auto renewing subscription about two weeks before it would habe been renewed and realized that they immediately removed all subscription-features. That disappointed me so much. That’s not fair, I think.
Ok, I meant what are the problem in their services?
I personally really hate their Android email app, which have annoying bugs, but for the rest I’m pretty happy.
Oh sorry!
I mostly hated their VPN app on linux: it’s not like their VPN is a brand new service and still they can’t manage to make it work painlessly.
Switched to Mullvad and now I can forget to even have a VPN.
And also the Android mail app could be better indeed.
All in all it seems to me that Proton makes sense if you can have the entire package: but once you have problems with one or more of their services (VPN, email) and need to look elsewhere, then you can find good alternatives at cheaper prices.
Tutanota doesn’t share their security audits, which Proton does.
Also, IIRC Tutanota uses their own custom encryption implementation, while Proton contributes to open source OpenPGP projects.
And when in the past the the Swiss gov ordered Proton to do some limited tracking for a specific user, after that they went to the court and succeeded in changing the law so it’s no longer possible to order this tracking.
Proton might not be ideal, but they seem to actually care about making the Internet a safer place.
I am sure that Tutanota does not use any custom encryption algorithm. It is clearly stated in the FAQ that they use RSA (with PFS) and AES to encrypt emails exchanged between Tutanota users.
https://tutanota.com/encryption
There’s even a section which discusses why they do not use PGP. So it’s not like they can’t add it, they just don’t because it lacks “important requirements”. Plus they even are slowly developing a protocol that is post-quantum secure to encrypt their emails with.
I am sure that Tutanota does not use any custom encryption algorithm. It is clearly stated in the FAQ that they use RSA (with PFS) and AES to encrypt emails exchanged between Tutanota users. https://tutanota.com/encryption
These are only primitive algorithms, the actual implementation is custom and specific to Tutanota, which mean it will only work with Tutanota as nothing else will implement it.
There is no way to do key distribution outside of Tutanota’s service.
I’m not really saying that what Tutanota does is insecure, but historically doing security on your own instead of using established standards has not been a winning move.
Plus their unwillingness to open source it and not sharing the audits just doesn’t inspire my confidence.
Overall they’re probably fine, but these are some of the main reasons I ultimately chose Proton instead.
BTW, they’re not “slowly developing” post-quantum encryption, they’re just saying they may do that at some point in the future - which everyone will have to do anyway when we get to this point.
Plus their unwillingness to open source it and not sharing the audits just doesn’t inspire my confidence.
The server side isn’t open source, and you can’t verify that is what is actually running in production. While we do recommend it I don’t personally use their products.I like the use of email clients, particularly customized to my needs.
Nested folders was only a very recent feature added https://tutanota.com/blog/posts/subfolders and without that I wouldn’t even consider a provider as I use this for organization. Of course as you can’t use your own email client, downloading email from Tutanota can be a bit of a pain too, you can only export per-folder into Mbox.
+1 as a Proton unlimited user. Yes, proton has some unfinished products, I mainly purchased it for vpn and email( also SimpleLogin). So others are a bit of extra for me. After some time, I also plan to switch from Bitwarden to proton pass. If macOS client comes, then I will also switch to proton drive.
Proton Drive client for macOS is on beta right now.
We’re also beginning the beta for our upcoming macOS desktop app for Proton Drive. As with the other Proton betas, we’re starting with Proton Lifetime accounts today, with Visionary users to be invited later. While community feedback is always important, it’s especially vital at these early stages, so we will send beta invites via email based on our ability to keep up with the feedback. We’ll collect feedback both on Reddit and at drive@proton.me. Once the macOS app is released, we’ll also work on our planned Linux version.
Tutanota is mainly an email service, with very basic calendar and contact functionality. Proton has a suite of apps, including Mail, Drive, VPN, Calendar, and Pass. I got the Tutanota subscription when it was €1/month and it works well for me.
I used to use both mail mobile apps, but found out that Proton Mail notification doesn’t work without Google Play Services, which is a deal breaker for me. So I use Tutanota as my main email and Proton as my backup and for its Drive. Either way, I’m just glad to leave Gmail.
Protonmail’s interface and mobile app is more refined and faster than Tutanota’s, and PM has more features on their free tier than what Tutanota provides on their free tier. Having said that, both are great email providers. I have accounts on both but I tend to use PM more at this point in time.
I’ve been using Proton for a few months now and I like it. It’s under Swiss law and not part of that Five Eyes agency, so I at least feel like my data is secure. Their iOS app is actually really nice and easy to use if that will make or break something for you OP.
Bulls*t. What the random YouTubers claim without evidence is also nonsense.
It’s remarkable to allege that an open source and audited app is a honeypot. Well, find it guys, it’s open source.
I didn’t watch the video, because I don’t have 15 minutes to listen to what sounds like a conspiracy theory, but the source link for his info he put in description is dead, so that doesn’t inspire confidence…
Anyway, how would a Swiss company be a honey pot for the feds?
I do think this video lays out a clear case that Proton is not as open and anonymity focused as it could be. While going from those facts to a postulation that it’s a fed honey pot is probably a stretch, to use this as grounds to say “Proton isn’t as trustworthy as they claim to be” seems reasonable.
Yeah, I think that’s a reasonable expectation from the service. The notion that it’s an end-all-to-beat-all service is foolish, but when properly incorporated into an otherwise robust personal protection plan, it can probably help with security.
“I have no evidence, but let me make an unsubstantiated claim and mention there’s YouTube videos about it and then recommend the very thing I said might be problematic”
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grandfathered premium sub 12$/year with a custom domain for my mails is what im using and I am pretty happy. Would recommend
I use both Tutanota and Protonmail and love both. Protonmail is based out of Switzerland where Tutanota is based out of Germany. Germany is part of fourteen eyes so I give the win to Proton there. Tutanota has lower prices. Tutanota has apps available in App Image and Flatpak for Linux where Proton is only in the AUR and as a .deb. Tutanota has an Android app on F-Droid where Protonmail you have to navigate their site to find a standalone apk. Both are on the Fediverse but Proton did leave for a while where Tutanota stayed and was more active. Overall both are good choices.
I couldn’t choose one or another, so I use both, their free tier. But Proton is a better option if you can pay for the premium plans.
Proton lost me in the testmonth. I wanted to cancel the auto renewing subscription about two weeks before it would habe been renewed and realized that they immediately removed all subscription-features. That disappointed me so much. That’s not fair, I think.
Tutanota deleted my account due to not logging in for 6 months. That was rough.
I am fine with Tutanota. Simple and working. All the half-finished services from Proton are just really annoying for me.
What half-service?
Did you try their VPN on linux? Bc I did
yes is slow/shit
What do you mean by “half finished services”?
half backed?
Ok, I meant what are the problem in their services? I personally really hate their Android email app, which have annoying bugs, but for the rest I’m pretty happy.
Oh sorry! I mostly hated their VPN app on linux: it’s not like their VPN is a brand new service and still they can’t manage to make it work painlessly. Switched to Mullvad and now I can forget to even have a VPN. And also the Android mail app could be better indeed.
All in all it seems to me that Proton makes sense if you can have the entire package: but once you have problems with one or more of their services (VPN, email) and need to look elsewhere, then you can find good alternatives at cheaper prices.
Tutanota doesn’t share their security audits, which Proton does.
Also, IIRC Tutanota uses their own custom encryption implementation, while Proton contributes to open source OpenPGP projects.
And when in the past the the Swiss gov ordered Proton to do some limited tracking for a specific user, after that they went to the court and succeeded in changing the law so it’s no longer possible to order this tracking.
Proton might not be ideal, but they seem to actually care about making the Internet a safer place.
I am sure that Tutanota does not use any custom encryption algorithm. It is clearly stated in the FAQ that they use RSA (with PFS) and AES to encrypt emails exchanged between Tutanota users. https://tutanota.com/encryption There’s even a section which discusses why they do not use PGP. So it’s not like they can’t add it, they just don’t because it lacks “important requirements”. Plus they even are slowly developing a protocol that is post-quantum secure to encrypt their emails with.
These are only primitive algorithms, the actual implementation is custom and specific to Tutanota, which mean it will only work with Tutanota as nothing else will implement it.
There is no way to do key distribution outside of Tutanota’s service.
I’m not really saying that what Tutanota does is insecure, but historically doing security on your own instead of using established standards has not been a winning move.
Plus their unwillingness to open source it and not sharing the audits just doesn’t inspire my confidence.
Overall they’re probably fine, but these are some of the main reasons I ultimately chose Proton instead.
BTW, they’re not “slowly developing” post-quantum encryption, they’re just saying they may do that at some point in the future - which everyone will have to do anyway when we get to this point.
The server side isn’t open source, and you can’t verify that is what is actually running in production. While we do recommend it I don’t personally use their products.I like the use of email clients, particularly customized to my needs.
Nested folders was only a very recent feature added https://tutanota.com/blog/posts/subfolders and without that I wouldn’t even consider a provider as I use this for organization. Of course as you can’t use your own email client, downloading email from Tutanota can be a bit of a pain too, you can only export per-folder into Mbox.
+1 as a Proton unlimited user. Yes, proton has some unfinished products, I mainly purchased it for vpn and email( also SimpleLogin). So others are a bit of extra for me. After some time, I also plan to switch from Bitwarden to proton pass. If macOS client comes, then I will also switch to proton drive.
Tbh I don’t like everything in one box. Also, Anonaddy is better than simplelogin in my opinion. I use both tutanota and proton - like proton more
Proton Drive client for macOS is on beta right now.
https://proton.me/blog/proton-drive-windows
I am using Tutanota as my e-mail provider and it’s quite OK.
Tutanota is mainly an email service, with very basic calendar and contact functionality. Proton has a suite of apps, including Mail, Drive, VPN, Calendar, and Pass. I got the Tutanota subscription when it was €1/month and it works well for me.
I used to use both mail mobile apps, but found out that Proton Mail notification doesn’t work without Google Play Services, which is a deal breaker for me. So I use Tutanota as my main email and Proton as my backup and for its Drive. Either way, I’m just glad to leave Gmail.
Tutanota also has calendar. But I understand your point.
There’s this solution for notifications if you wanna try.
https://www.f-droid.org/packages/dev.lbeernaert.youhavemail/
Thank you. I’ve looked into it, but I didn’t feel comfortable logging in with my Proton credentials.
deleted by creator
Protonmail’s interface and mobile app is more refined and faster than Tutanota’s, and PM has more features on their free tier than what Tutanota provides on their free tier. Having said that, both are great email providers. I have accounts on both but I tend to use PM more at this point in time.
Better graphic interface for proton and it come with vpn, storage (500go), proton pass, calendar, etc
I pay 12$ a month
I’ve been using Proton for a few months now and I like it. It’s under Swiss law and not part of that Five Eyes agency, so I at least feel like my data is secure. Their iOS app is actually really nice and easy to use if that will make or break something for you OP.
removed by mod
Bulls*t. What the random YouTubers claim without evidence is also nonsense. It’s remarkable to allege that an open source and audited app is a honeypot. Well, find it guys, it’s open source.
In interest of a complete record, the video I found most compelling on the issue:
https://youtu.be/IeXaYR4ed9c
I’d love for you to disprove this guy’s claims. I mean this in good faith and will be checking back in the next couple hours.
I didn’t watch the video, because I don’t have 15 minutes to listen to what sounds like a conspiracy theory, but the source link for his info he put in description is dead, so that doesn’t inspire confidence…
Anyway, how would a Swiss company be a honey pot for the feds?
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/IeXaYR4ed9c
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
deleted by creator
In interest of a complete record, the video I found most compelling on the issue:
https://youtu.be/IeXaYR4ed9c
I’d love for you to disprove this guy’s claims. I mean this in good faith and will be checking back in the next couple hours.
deleted by creator
That’s fair.
I do think this video lays out a clear case that Proton is not as open and anonymity focused as it could be. While going from those facts to a postulation that it’s a fed honey pot is probably a stretch, to use this as grounds to say “Proton isn’t as trustworthy as they claim to be” seems reasonable.
Thoughts on that line of thinking?
deleted by creator
Yeah, I think that’s a reasonable expectation from the service. The notion that it’s an end-all-to-beat-all service is foolish, but when properly incorporated into an otherwise robust personal protection plan, it can probably help with security.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/IeXaYR4ed9c
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
deleted by creator
In interest of a complete record, the video I found most compelling on the issue:
https://youtu.be/IeXaYR4ed9c
I’d love for you to disprove this guy’s claims. I mean this in good faith and will be checking back in the next couple hours.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/IeXaYR4ed9c
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
In interest of a complete record, the video I found most compelling on the issue:
https://youtu.be/IeXaYR4ed9c
I’d love for you to disprove this guy’s claims. I mean this in good faith and will be checking back in the next couple hours.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/IeXaYR4ed9c
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
please stay respectful even when someone spreads fud
In interest of a complete record, the video I found most compelling on the issue:
https://youtu.be/IeXaYR4ed9c
I’d love for you to disprove this guy’s claims. I mean this in good faith and will be checking back in the next couple hours.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/IeXaYR4ed9c
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Then why post it and spread FUD?
Seriously shit like this is ridiculous and should get you banned. I can make shit up with no evidence as well, but it does no one any good.
Deleted by Mod.
People please try to remember the rules about substantiating your content/posts.
In interest of a complete record, the video I found most compelling on the issue:
https://youtu.be/IeXaYR4ed9c
I’d love for you to disprove this guy’s claims. I mean this in good faith and will be checking back in the next couple hours.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/IeXaYR4ed9c
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.