Signal isn’t perfect either, but their mistakes are far less egregious. They also have removed some of the more egregious mistakes, like needing a phone number (edit: incorrect, see below) or google play services to function. It can be run on a device without Google Play Services because it only uses Google Play Services for push notifications.
Are you both bots? How can anyone read that crap and say it’s a great breakdown?
It’s a single widely known issue, and it can literally be summed up in one short sentence: by default it doesn’t use end-to-end encrypted chats, which are also far inferior in functionality.
I’ve never seen a pro-telegram propagandist, but you anti-telegram propagandists are swarming and very tiresome.
I dislike Signal because of the abandonment of SMS as an option. Without that, it’s on par with (not really ahead of) most other secure messengers. Session is pretty decent, and I am curious if SimpleX will take off.
Anyways. Not a Session fanboy by any means, but I cam still see that (given the two options asked about) session is the clear winner. But your take on this all is hilarious.
it’s not simply the fact that SMS is gone, it’s also the administrative decision that caused that. Session will likely have some gaffes administratively as they get larger, but for now, I don’t know of any I particularly dislike.
@bastion Anonymity is useful, sure. But if you’re going to use an IM app like the majority of people do, you’re going to use it to contact friends and family, which means that the account isn’t anonymous.
You should also know that Session lacks forward secrecy (a very important feature imo).
True. And although perfect forward secrecy isn’t a huge deal, it is potentially useful, if (for example) you have the encrypted messages backed up, then deleted from your phone, and someone gets access to both your backup and secret key (somehow).
If a hacker had access to the private long-term key, though, odds are extremely high that they have access to the message database of decrypted messages that signal keeps around to show your history - so kinda moot at that point. There are some useful niche cases for it, though.
I don’t like to participate in pointless discussions, but I’ll at least clarify it to avoid more silly replies.
-I call the other user a propagandist just for using the other user’s language, obviously the correct thing would be hater.
-The article is crap and I criticize the nonsense of praising it. This is not a defense of telegram, nor being against criticizing it.
-I called them bots in a mocking way for their conclusion to the article.
We are in a privacy community. A privacy community with a specific website that makes recommendations on messenger apps. And yet, OP is asking for an opinion on comparisons between Signal (recommended by the guide) and Telegram (which isn’t even in the guide). Why would this be necessary if they weren’t thinking Telegram could be a private and secure messenger too? Even tho it’s not recommended on privacy guides. Draw whatever conclusions you want to fit your own world view. But just because others do so differently, doesn’t mean they’re bots. That’s a very lazy way to view the world. And that is also just my opinion. If you wanted to discuss the points of the article, I’m down. But if you’re coming in here to be reductive because you have a differing opinion, then this is all I’m going to be saying to you.
I guess it’s too hard to consider real people with real opinions might populate a niche website with small userbase and an active anti-advertising attitude.
I guess it’s also too hard to just look at an account and decide if it seems spammy or if it seems like a real person, and easier to just cast aspersions because they… annoyed you?
GPS was short for Google Play Services, not Global Positioning System. Sorry.
Signal is always encrypted by default. Same with Matrix. Telegram you have to choose for it to be an encrypted chat, and you can’t do encrypted group chats.
Usernames have not been released yet. When they are released, phone number will still be required for registration, but you will be able to hide it from other people on Signal.
Hm? Not sure which Signal you’re using. But it very much still requires a phone number to use. Usernames are not available just yet. There’s activity related to usernames in the GitHub repository, but no release yet.
They did remove the ability to send and receive SMS from their Android app. That was about last year or so.
I knew about the SMS thing (Android only), but thought they had yet to release user names as a feature. I see no settings related to user names on iOS. The SMS retirement was to remove the ability to use Signal to replace an SMS app on Android.
Forgive me, you’re correct. I stopped using it when it dropped SMS, because I had only ever able to get people on it through SMS, but at the time had read plans about eventually dropping the phone number requirement. I mixed those things up in my head.
From what I understand, they’re fully invested in dropping the phone number requirement though, and some more googling says that they’ve had versions of Signal PNP (phone number privacy) running for a while now.
You’re correct, that part hasn’t actually changed over yet, but it’s in the works.
Hehe! I was just bitching about them dropping SMS (and a crapton of users) in another post.
It used to be the perfect app to get people into secure messaging. Now it’s just another chat app to most people, who tend to think “who really cares when you’ve got WhatsApp etc, that actually have users? Why would I want some obscure app on my phone? More shit to think about.”
They do not at this time intend to drop the phone number requirement, as they see it as an anti-spam measure. Meredith Whittaker has said as much. Phone number privacy is a project independent of requiring phone number at signup, and it just prevents other users from seeing your number.
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If you trust Telegram you’re naive. Here is a great breakdown earlier this year from Kaspersky.
https://usa.kaspersky.com/blog/telegram-why-nobody-uses-secret-chats/27662/
Signal isn’t perfect either, but their mistakes are far less egregious. They also have removed some of the more egregious mistakes,
like needing a phone number(edit: incorrect, see below) or google play services to function. It can be run on a device without Google Play Services because it only uses Google Play Services for push notifications.Thanks for the article. That’s a really good breakdown for most arguments of Telegram propagandists. 🙌
Are you both bots? How can anyone read that crap and say it’s a great breakdown?
It’s a single widely known issue, and it can literally be summed up in one short sentence: by default it doesn’t use end-to-end encrypted chats, which are also far inferior in functionality.
I’ve never seen a pro-telegram propagandist, but you anti-telegram propagandists are swarming and very tiresome.
lol.
I dislike Signal because of the abandonment of SMS as an option. Without that, it’s on par with (not really ahead of) most other secure messengers. Session is pretty decent, and I am curious if SimpleX will take off.
Anyways. Not a Session fanboy by any means, but I cam still see that (given the two options asked about) session is the clear winner. But your take on this all is hilarious.
@bastion @Infiltrated_ad8271 But Session doesn’t support SMS too. Why do you consider it superior if that’s the reason you dislike Signal ?
Two reasons:
@bastion Anonymity is useful, sure. But if you’re going to use an IM app like the majority of people do, you’re going to use it to contact friends and family, which means that the account isn’t anonymous.
You should also know that Session lacks forward secrecy (a very important feature imo).
True. And although perfect forward secrecy isn’t a huge deal, it is potentially useful, if (for example) you have the encrypted messages backed up, then deleted from your phone, and someone gets access to both your backup and secret key (somehow).
If a hacker had access to the private long-term key, though, odds are extremely high that they have access to the message database of decrypted messages that signal keeps around to show your history - so kinda moot at that point. There are some useful niche cases for it, though.
Not a dealbreaker for my by far.
@bastion > message database of **decrypted** messages that signal keeps around to show your history
What are you talking about ? Where did you get this from ?
I don’t like to participate in pointless discussions, but I’ll at least clarify it to avoid more silly replies.
-I call the other user a propagandist just for using the other user’s language, obviously the correct thing would be hater.
-The article is crap and I criticize the nonsense of praising it. This is not a defense of telegram, nor being against criticizing it.
-I called them bots in a mocking way for their conclusion to the article.
We are in a privacy community. A privacy community with a specific website that makes recommendations on messenger apps. And yet, OP is asking for an opinion on comparisons between Signal (recommended by the guide) and Telegram (which isn’t even in the guide). Why would this be necessary if they weren’t thinking Telegram could be a private and secure messenger too? Even tho it’s not recommended on privacy guides. Draw whatever conclusions you want to fit your own world view. But just because others do so differently, doesn’t mean they’re bots. That’s a very lazy way to view the world. And that is also just my opinion. If you wanted to discuss the points of the article, I’m down. But if you’re coming in here to be reductive because you have a differing opinion, then this is all I’m going to be saying to you.
I guess it’s too hard to consider real people with real opinions might populate a niche website with small userbase and an active anti-advertising attitude.
I guess it’s also too hard to just look at an account and decide if it seems spammy or if it seems like a real person, and easier to just cast aspersions because they… annoyed you?
Anyway, thanks for standing up for us both.
No idea how they use GPS for push messages, but is the thing that you need to select encrypted chat and that it’s not e2ee otherwise?
GPS was short for Google Play Services, not Global Positioning System. Sorry.
Signal is always encrypted by default. Same with Matrix. Telegram you have to choose for it to be an encrypted chat, and you can’t do encrypted group chats.
deleted by creator
Ah - I’m on iOS but should have figured that out. https://emteria.com/blog/what-is-google-push-service
I still get shit video on signal, but for texts it’s ok. I use both - and don’t really trust any of them
Since when does Signal not require a phone number?
Earlier this year. It no longer functions as an SMS service and you now have a username instead. I think the changeover was in March or April.
Usernames still aren’t a thing. What are you talking about?
Usernames have not been released yet. When they are released, phone number will still be required for registration, but you will be able to hide it from other people on Signal.
Hm? Not sure which Signal you’re using. But it very much still requires a phone number to use. Usernames are not available just yet. There’s activity related to usernames in the GitHub repository, but no release yet.
They did remove the ability to send and receive SMS from their Android app. That was about last year or so.
https://signal.org/blog/sms-removal-android/
I knew about the SMS thing (Android only), but thought they had yet to release user names as a feature. I see no settings related to user names on iOS. The SMS retirement was to remove the ability to use Signal to replace an SMS app on Android.
Forgive me, you’re correct. I stopped using it when it dropped SMS, because I had only ever able to get people on it through SMS, but at the time had read plans about eventually dropping the phone number requirement. I mixed those things up in my head.
From what I understand, they’re fully invested in dropping the phone number requirement though, and some more googling says that they’ve had versions of Signal PNP (phone number privacy) running for a while now.
You’re correct, that part hasn’t actually changed over yet, but it’s in the works.
Hehe! I was just bitching about them dropping SMS (and a crapton of users) in another post.
It used to be the perfect app to get people into secure messaging. Now it’s just another chat app to most people, who tend to think “who really cares when you’ve got WhatsApp etc, that actually have users? Why would I want some obscure app on my phone? More shit to think about.”
They do not at this time intend to drop the phone number requirement, as they see it as an anti-spam measure. Meredith Whittaker has said as much. Phone number privacy is a project independent of requiring phone number at signup, and it just prevents other users from seeing your number.
It is planned, and “in the works” for at least two years at this point. It’ll happen, eventually.